Tokai Breezysound TE-80 info please

[Udonitron]

Cool, so variations like a Tele or LP

 

[villager]

for these rock spirits yes for the fugigen expert series dont know..

 

[JDB]

i dont think that is a prototype, i have had a 320 with no serial, and a high end nav 680 with card but no serial, so that means nothing, the headstock script is interesting, it may well have been an employees guitar or one of a test batch, but for me a prototype is something which differs significantly from the final production runs,

like this, this is what i would call a prototype..

http://s13.photobucket.com/user/generalunrest/library/ObG%20LPR%20Order%20Made%20CHSB%20Solid%20top?sort=3&page=1

totally different to all other OBG's serial no is a different format and makes no sense, solid flametop long tenon and different routing..

this MAY be a prototype maybe not ..

http://s765.photobucket.com/user/generalunrest2/library/Greco/Greco%20LP%20Custom%20built%20solid%20top?sort=3&page=1

those are the only 2 that I have that are so outside the norm that I would say they are prototypes..

What about this one Mark, any interesting features on that out of the norm?
http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=137270&sid=42b442c0fa07c50b3f3b0988b5f2fcb4

My take on the OBG you have is that Terada upgraded there production machinery, routers etc in around 97 98 about the same time OBG was coming to an end and yours is one of the last made. As I have said before its the same build as the Custom-T 59RI guitars like we both have with the flowery inlay on the head. From the info I have found these were made around 97. Or Terada maybe started a custom shop around that time.

 

[villager]

yes that was the no serial one i had, at the time I thought it was a v early prototype, not so sure now..

re the ObG, i am not so sure about the date as the latest normal ObG was 95, yes orvilles continued to 97 but not ObG, i agree about the similarity with the custom 59's tho..

 

[JDB]

Yeah I was just guessing dates, never owned an obg so don't know bugger all about them really.
Definitely Terada on both counts though. I also have that ES with the logo " T-Custom" and also seen some LPs like the flower logo LPs but with T custom logo, so thinking the "T" is for Terada and "Custom" custom shop.

 

[villager]

thats a viable assumption...

 

[JDB]

So back on the subject of Chris' tele.
I noticed the truss rod has a hex nut and not a philips screw.
Hex nut to philips screw transition was late 1980 but not as late as december. As Chris's tele has a december neck stamp this means this neck was made in either 1978 or 1979. Agreed?

I have a neck here with hex nut truss with neck plate serial 0015959 and no fretboard stamp the neck date code looks like a 2= with no following number.

 

[Reborn Old]

I suspect that was part of a large run of mostly (if not all) Springy's, Jarrod,
produced in Jan - Feb 1980, and assigned the highest 1980 serial # plates for whatever reason.
Members would need to check #001422x or lower plate #s in order to check late 1980 truss rod adjust types.

The lack of a fret board model # stamp in this case points to
the likelihood that fret boards were stamped near guitar completion
rather than after neck completion.

 

[jacco]

So back on the subject of Chris' tele.
I noticed the truss rod has a hex nut and not a philips screw.
Hex nut to philips screw transition was late 1980 but not as late as december. As Chris's tele has a december neck stamp this means this neck was made in either 1978 or 1979. Agreed?

I have a neck here with hex nut truss with neck plate serial 0015959 and no fretboard stamp the neck date code looks like a 2= with no following number.

Interesting Jarrod.
I was following Peter's info on hex nut transition on this one. I think it needs another look at late 1980 models.
My ST-55 with serial 0012595 has a hex nut AND a 55 fretboard stamp. I don't know what the neck stamp is though. Need to check with next string change.
My friends ST-60 with serial 0013122 has a hex nut, 60 fretboard stamp and 7=5 neck stamp.

 

[Reborn Old]

Hex truss rod adjusters changed to X slotted type in Oct 1980,
if it wasn't a gradual transition like so many hardware changes were.
There are examples of both types used in October 1980.

 

[Peter Mac]

Hi guys,
these last posts seem to outline a few things I long suspected . . .
I've had quite a few 1980 and 1981 Springys over the past few years and all the features and stamps seem to affirm that OCtoberNovember seemed to be the most likely month for Model Year change, not January.
I have not seen or heard of (to date) an MY1981 model with hex TR and Type 2 neckplate or an MY1980 neck with phillips TR and Type 3 neck plate.
Here are some reasonings for you to ponder . . .
ST-80 0009568 10=1 GS A Oval decal
ST-80 0009925 10=11 GS A Oval decal
ST-60 0013871 4=7 BB Fret stamp
ST-60 0016281 9=10 BB Oval decal

This last ser# 0016281 is one of the highest for MY1980 and being stamped in September gives a reasonable indicator of production end.

Peter Mac

 

[Reborn Old]

Fender models make more sense spec wise if serial numbers
are secondary to body stampings in my limited experience,
particularly when they fall within ranges of Gibson models.
There are small # gaps in Gibson production where these were made
and Gibson body stamps when used are in line monthwise with similar serial # Fender models.

For instance, in the sample of 4 you just mentioned I suspect that :

ST-60 0013871 4=7 BB w Fret stamp was made amongst
Les Paul Reborn line runs

ST-60 0016281 9=10 BB + ST-80 0009568 10=1 GS with decals
were made right after fret board stamps stopped being
used on Reborn Olds, and shortly before Love Rocks were introduced.
(why 0013871 + 0016281 were assigned high # plates remains a mystery,
but the bodies were routed and stamped before #0009568 )

ST-80 0009925 10=11 GS was made amongst early Love Rock line runs.

I don't have extensive body stamp records like you do Peter,
but do any Fenders produced after #00111XX have stamps later than Sept 9=XX ?
Could the last calendar year 1980 Fender be in the 001105X range ?
... assuming it has a 11=XX or higher body stamp ?
ie - near the end of Gibson production as well ?

 

[Peter Mac]

Hey John,

Yeah, good question . . .I was pondering this myself also.

I also have another point to throw in the mix . . . most of the 0009xxx numbers that I've seen are nickel plate, whereas most of the higher 0011xxx appear to be chrome plate.
The one thing I have also been doing is keeping photos of the logged guitars, whether they are in auctions or shown here, as I then have a source of reference to the serial number. Whilst not all list the stamp numbers, at least it allows for "proof of life" in terms of serial numbers and build specs, colours, etc.
I also log these guitars by serial number, then model, then stamp eg
0009925 (80) 10=11 GS A
If no stamps available, i log them as this
0008888 (60) YSR
When you have a list of 70 odd guitars for that one year, patterns do begin to emerge.

Peter Mac

 

[Reborn Old]

Great idea keeping files + cross referencing 3 ways.

Serial # plate differences do lend support to the idea Tokai had plates on order mid year,
a bunch of guitars that weren't rush orders held back until these chromed number plates completed and assigned the higher numbers at year end.
I think it's fair to say Tokai never anticipated the volumes they contended with in 1980 + 1981.

 

[jacco]

If Jarrods with a 2 stamp has a hex nut and more examples from this period are found then Chris' tele neck can be from 1980 too. Actually makes it most likely from 1980 because the absence of the fretboard stamp.

 

[jacco]

EDIT many posts after mine already

 

[jacco]

Hi guys,
these last posts seem to outline a few things I long suspected . . .
I've had quite a few 1980 and 1981 Springys over the past few years and all the features and stamps seem to affirm that OCtoberNovember seemed to be the most likely month for Model Year change, not January.
Peter Mac

In general you mean?

1978 I wouldn't know, LSs don't have date stamps and I do not have enough data for Tokai Fender models.
1979 the first LS-120 I have seen has a 9= code. So that's september.
1980 also september as you pointed out above.
1981 is interesting for there is a range; 1016650-6750 with ST-70 & SS-70 models with 1982 neck plates which were introduced in april 1981. These serials are way earlier than september.

 

[JDB]

If Jarrods with a 2 stamp has a hex nut and more examples from this period are found then Chris' tele neck can be from 1980 too. Actually makes it most likely from 1980 because the absence of the fretboard stamp.

But Chris's had a DEC stamp and hex. I thought the hex disappeared sept?

If there is no other example as late as Nov-Dec then Chris's must be 78-79 and if it is 78 and a proto then it could of been started around the change over from small neck plates and no fret board stamp to larger stamped plates and stamped boards. Seams more likely since 79 was always stamped.

 

[jacco]

Remind me to quote the post I replied to the next time
I interpreted Johns reply, which has now been edited, as that your 2 stamp neck is from 1981 but given 1980 neck plate.

Posts after that imply differently.

 

[Reborn Old]

For the record ... I never said or suggested anything remotely like that.