1979 Tokai Love Rock GT ???

[jacco]

Also the word choice was quite crude in its emails

That's what I thought he would be like. He's not taking any responsiblity for his mistake in the description. So maybe it's deliberate?

 

[Anonymous]

He's not taking any responsiblity for his mistake in the description. So maybe it's deliberate?

Are we talking about dongrosh here?

 

[dongrosh]

He's not taking any responsiblity for his mistake in the description. So maybe it's deliberate?

Are we talking about dongrosh here?

no, they talk about the seller from the that auction,
which of course is NOT me...

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280526966095&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 

[jacco]

He's not taking any responsiblity for his mistake in the description. So maybe it's deliberate?

Are we talking about dongrosh here?

You know I was not! :x

But I do think that JohnA did a great job in putting the leading sentiment into words. And yes, what I've missed so far are words of regret from dongrosh of how this was handled by him. But then I don't know if that will ever be enough for you.

 

[Anonymous]

But I do think that JohnA did a great job in putting the leading sentiment into words. And yes, what I've missed so far are words of regret from dongrosh of how this was handled by him. But then I don't know if that will ever be enbough for you.

Well about ?250 would help too - some hope!

Just to put JohnA's comments into perspective, shortly after my fateful deal with dongrosh, JohnA decided to sell his (genuine) ST80. He asked for ?750 - a fair price - and I was also given 14 days to decide if I wanted to keep it. Even if I had simply not liked the (real) ST80, I could have sent it back for a full refund (less postage). I didn't send it back.

That is why JohnA is a well respected forum member - that's how decent forum members treat each other.

dongrosh is very selective about what he claims to be an expert on - when it suits him, he just claims ignorance. I wouldn't trust him as far as I can throw him!

 

[jacco]

hmmm, I was hoping for something else but I see it's all about money
ah well, we're all human..

 

[JVsearch]

Given my love of forum drama, I have to chime in and help move this thread towards an implosion.

Are we talking about Don Grosh, the designer and builder of the Grosh set neck guitar who did this less than honourable deal?

Seems like a classic case of "you should have read the listing better instead of jumping to conclusions" type of sale, where the option is there for the seller to let the sale go when the mistake is discovered. That option wasn't taken, the seller must have needed the money, maybe...

There's certainly nothing positive about taking an extra 200 quid off somebody in a poorly handled internet based sale.

 

[Anonymous]

hmmm, I was hoping for something else but I see it's all about money
ah well, we're all human..

If you were in my shoes, would you be satisfied with just an apology? I agree that would be a good start. But it wouldn't restore Mr. Grosh's integrity.

I would be satisfied with a ?250 donation from dongrosh to a mutually agreed charity - is that fair?

 

[jacco]

hmmm, I was hoping for something else but I see it's all about money
ah well, we're all human..

If you were in my shoes, would you be satisfied with just an apology? I agree that would be a good start. But it wouldn't restore Mr. Grosh's integrity.

I would be satisfied with a ?250 donation from dongrosh to a mutually agreed charity - is that fair?

as a therapist I would say that forgiveness is better for your health than vendetta

 

[Anonymous]

as a therapist I would say that forgiveness is better for your health than vendetta

I'm sure you're right. But it's not me I'm thinking of - it's poor old dongrosh. I'm sure his conscience must be bothering him - I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I had conned someone like that. Making amends would restore his reputation and give him peace of mind.

That has to be worth the price, surely?

 

[jacco]

now you conned me! :lol: :lol:

 

[JohnA]

Given my love of forum drama, I have to chime in and help move this thread towards an implosion.

:wink:

I don't think it's totally about the money, it's about the forum being a nice bunch of people who we can all trust, Mike believed he was buying an ST80 and despite Dong 'never saying it was' once it became clear it was an ST60 he bagged the cash and dissapeared.

IMO this is morally wrong, he's a con-man and we should do our best to keep con-men away from the forum! :evil:

 

[Anonymous]

now you conned me! :lol: :lol:

In that case, I apologise. But I promise to give all the money I conned out of you to charity.

Cool? :wink:

 

[dongrosh]

Are we talking about Don Grosh, the designer and builder of the Grosh set neck guitar who did this less than honourable deal?

No, but of course that?s the person where i borrowed more than 10 years ago my nickname as i needed one quickly and played a Grosh at that time
which i really loved.....

Seems like a classic case of "you should have read the listing better instead of jumping to conclusions" type of sale, where the option is there for the seller to let the sale go when the mistake is discovered.

Also No, or even better not really. To shelter! stratman (Mike) and in
hope not to "ruminate" the whole "drama" there have been a lot of "experts" (not me!) who put that guitar in the ST-80 area, esp. the
former seller to me which is Gottfried (togps) - he wrote to Mike
that it has to be a ST-80, later on, after the deal, he was "not sure about the neck" and so on......

If i would have put it on ebay as ST-80 i would pay Mike what he ask for!
But i have not!

 

[JVsearch]

as a therapist...

Please don't read any more of my posts. :lol:

 

[JohnA]

as a therapist I would say that forgiveness is better for your health than vendetta

I'm sure you're right. But it's not me I'm thinking of - it's poor old dongrosh. I'm sure his conscience must be bothering him - I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I had conned someone like that. Making amends would restore his reputation and give him peace of mind.

That has to be worth the price, surely?

That's what I mean about nice people on the forum, a totally selfless act of kindness :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

To shelter! stratman (Mike) and in
hope not to "ruminate" the whole "drama" there have been a lot of "experts" (not me!) who put that guitar in the ST-80 area, esp. the
former seller to me which is Gottfried (togps) - he wrote to Mike
that it has to be a ST-80, later on, after the deal, he was "not sure about the neck" and so on......

If i would have put it on ebay as ST-80 i would pay Mike what he ask for!
But i have not!

Gottfried did NOT write to me to say it has to be an ST80. Not at all. Complete lie.

So what you mean is that if you had conned me on eBay, where I could have launched a formal complaint (which I would have won), you would have repaid me? But because the deal was on this forum, you simply walk away with your ill-gotten gains.

Great - that clearly shows the contempt with which you view this forum & it's members.

 

[dongrosh]

ORIGINAL from your mails and postings:

Well I bought it on the assumption that it was an ST80, as that was
how it had been described by togps on the website link that Dave provided
earlier. And he is one of the leading experts on old Tokais. So I assumed it
had a nitro finish. If it has a poly finish, I'm going to be VERY
disappointed....

AND

rgrafend
Guitar God
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 547
Location: Linz, Austria
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:23 am Post subject:
I'd say ST80 because of the "E-stamped" pups.

AND

Dave gave that link:

DaveWW
Guitar God
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 148
Location: North East UK
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:18 pm Post subject:
You guys might find some of the info you need here
http://www.tokaiguitar.de/vintage.php?folder=vintage_guitars&kat=010

AND

bunbury
Guitar God
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 108
Location: london
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:28 pm Post subject:
Mike,
The details you were questioning (no headstock 'plug', no '80' stamp, 3-ply, 11 screw etc) are all the
same on my 1980 ST-80.
On mine, I can just make out the imprint of the '80' sticker at the base of the neck (the back).


AND


YOU wrote:

I assumed I was buying an ST80, which would have a nitro finish.
Dave's link to togps' webpage convinced me it was a good buy. If it's got a poly finish neck, I'm not sure that it is.

I'm really feeling uneasy about this now, since nobody seems to know
where the neck comes from. togps says he can't remember

I bought this guitar because it was bought from togps, therefore I assumed it was authentic and original. The link that Dave posted convinced me that it was an ST80,which is why I bought it.

and I WROTE YOU:

Mike, as i told you and to clear up here:
I never advertised it in ebay as an ST80
I never wrote about Nitro
You ever have asked me about the neck profile, finish or something else.
I have not clicked on the link from Dave before today
I can not confirm that something is not original
I have bought it too from togps believing his statements as
i?m NOT an tokai specialist.
I have never tricked anyone in my life
You have sent me 1.500 Euros via paypal - i have sent it back cause
you have mixed up Euro with Pound.
You have bought an guitar like seen in many pics on the bay
You have had the possibility to ask all you wanted to know BEFORE making an contract.
I?m not responsible for any statements in this forum.

End of story for me, if you like you can delete my account.
I HAVE not, never in history or now and i will never scam anyone.

 

[Anonymous]

ORIGINAL from your mails and postings:

Well I bought it on the assumption that it was an ST80, as that was
how it had been described by togps on the website link that Dave provided
earlier. And he is one of the leading experts on old Tokais. So I assumed it
had a nitro finish. If it has a poly finish, I'm going to be VERY
disappointed....

And yet you STILL insisted on shipping it to me, even though I had told you I wanted to pull out from the sale. Anyone else on this forum would have accepted my right to withdraw & refunded my money. You refused, for no good reason, except that you liked getting ?750 for a guitar worth nearer ?500.

You claimed earlier that togps had sent me an e.mail confirming that it was an ST80. I denied this. I assume you are now withdrawing your incorect allegation?

Trust me, if I had the power to delete your account I would do so. Isn't it funny that you vanished from the forum for 3 years after this deal? I wonder why?

I assume that you are not prepared to make a ?250 donation to charity to make up for the wrong you have done? If you did this, I would drop my allegations about you, I would gain nothing, & you would have the satisfaction of making a substantial donation to charity. With my money.... :roll:

 

[dongrosh]

Anyone else on this forum would have accepted my right to withdraw & refunded my money.

sorry, you?re wrong, i have several pm?s from members which say the opposite.

You claimed earlier that togps had sent me an e.mail confirming that it was an ST80. I denied this. I assume you are now withdrawing your incorect allegation?

Yes, my mistake, it?s 3 years ago, i thought you mailed together but after reading my copy of that whole thread i see you mailed him but didn?t got personal info from him.
You got the infos from his website. My mistake, i apologize.