Help needed to identify which model Tokai

[Sigmania]

Then again, the gold paint serial number over the paint looks legit.



This guitar is a puzzle and I suspect a one-off or prototype guitar.

A bunch of one-offs have surfaced over the past year or two since Tokai was sold and the new owners, GRACE, were getting rid of this dead stock that included repairs and one-offs.

I know you said you have had it for about 10 years, but there is plenty of evidence of non conforming, custom order, off catalog models out there.

 

[Sigmania]

The other thing that caught my attention is the headstock in lay.

It is not embedded within a black face veneer.



Reminds me of these.

GP Model Tokais With Pearloid Shell Love Rock Style Inlaid Logos

 

[TonyC]

Hi again - I can't really see anything that seems helpful to be honest. So I think I have to live with the fact that we can't tell which model this is. Therefore I don't think I can ask as much as I thought for this guitar so I'll lower the asking price considerably. Its a shame as it play and sound great but c'est la vie. Many thanks for your help on all this! best wishes, Tony

 

[Sigmania]

You are welcome. And of course, you can ask anything you like. I tend to use auctions if I don't know the actual value rather than a post on Reverb. Painted guitars tend to sell for less unless they are an historic replica. But who knows with a one off? I would imagine the value would be comparable with a 1990s LS55 or 65?

 

[TonyC]

Much obliged ! Many thanks

 

[chuckyz2]

It looks like a refin to me. On the Body it appears you can see where the paint bleads onto the binding and appears to higher then the binding. Like the biding was taped off for paint.

 

[Sigmania]

It looks like a refin to me. On the Body it appears you can see where the paint bleads onto the binding and appears to higher then the binding. Like the biding was taped off for paint.

Do you mean here for example?



I kept thinking that, but the kicker is the way the paint looks around the logo



plus the serial number.



So hard to say just from photos.

 

[Sigmania]

On second thought... looking at the logo magnified it almost looks like it is on top of the paint?

 

[Sigmania]

From this last enlarged pic it looks like a decal or something translucent applied over the paint.

Is it raised when you rub it? If so, I would agree with chuckyz2 and think it is a repaint.

 

[Sigmania]

And this would be telling. Whether there is paint over this ding on the corner. That would indicate it was painted AFTER it was used.

Also if there is black face veneer showing under it.

 

[TonyC]

Hi, The logo is definitely not raised... its totally smooth running my finger over it. As for the ding I see bare wood.. I will try and get a clearer photo in daylight tomorrow. thanks, Tony

 

[TonyC]

Hi all - attaching 4 new photos, 2 of the ding on headstock, 2 of the truss rod area if of interest. best wishes, Tony

 

[Sigmania]

It is really hard to see much detail with those pics since they are out of focus.

From what I can see there is a finished headstock with the black face veneer under the paint. Is that what you are seeing in person?

 

[TonyC]

Hi - sorry for delay in responding. Yes, it looks to me that the black (veneer) is under the paint. My main concern now is how to describe the guitar for sale. I obviously want it to be truthful!! I am proposing something like "Tokai 1998 Les Paul with blue paint finish - possibly a one-off or prototype as there is no model number." best, Tony

 

[Sigmania]

Well, I am still unclear about what this actually is, so I would be very careful about how you represent it.

I don't have it in had so you have the advantage.

I don't see a reason for painting over the black veneer on the face of the headstock other than it being a repaint. And that would not have happened at the factory.

So the odds are at this point that it was repainted by one of its owners. And the reason most people do that is to hide something. Damage, etc.

So I would take some time and really look at any areas where the wood under the paint is exposed like the chip on the headstock, and see if you see any traces of a shiny finish under it. They would not have painted over a finish at the factory.

Better pics of the area under the truss rod cover could be helpful too. That looked suspicious to me.

Sorry to have to bring bad news. I am just relaying what it looks like to me.

 

[TonyC]

Hi again ..... I don't think I can add much to this. I'd still like to sell it and the guitar plays great - I was very happy with it. From this conversation I will lower the price a lot - mainly because we don't know which model + the repainting by previous owner. IMO this would be a good guitar to buy? If it doesn't sell, it will go to my son! best wishes, Tony

 

[Sigmania]

You might try an auction and set a reserve if you have a minimum you would take.

As they say "run it up the flag pole and see if anyone salutes".

Just disclose all the stuff that you know and what is not known.

Whoever buys it may end up here and read all of this at some point.

Good luck.

 

[TonyC]

Many thanks - good to talk!!