Tokai Humbucker Models & Resistance

[Sigmania]

I had some of the PAF MKII pickups in a 1983 LS80 that I really didn’t bond with. In my opinion, the tone was kind of nasally, not full or balanced.

I wish there was a way to easily graph this stuff so you could see the tone of each pickup and compare them. Because just measuring the resistance, doesn’t really tell you what it sounds like. I think pick ups can read similarly and sound very different.

 

[ATO]

The MKII pickups in ATO’s LC60 read very close to the MKIII in your TSG50.

I wonder if they are the same pickups?

ATO, do you have a picture of the top of your pickups showing the pole pieces or are they covered?

They are covered

 

[ayrguitarist]

So I bought 3 Tokai pickups from YJ auctions over the past couple months, and they've all arrived now.

Based on the original listings, one came from a 1985 SD50MRR and has the TOKAI '57 P.A.F. MODEL sticker on the bottom (which I think is the 57 PAF Vintage model), and the other 2 came from a 1984 SD40AMRR (which I think are 57' PAF Vintage MKII or MKIII).

Everything on these pickups appears to be the same or similar, except: the magnets, the overall thickness (because of the magnet thickness), the DC resistance, and the lead wire used (although it's similar, and the differences could be based on the year). I do suspect the inductance and capacitance would be different as well, but I don't have a meter that can read those. I also have not taken them apart, beyond what you see in these photos, to inspect the windings, and so I also don't know if each coil is wound the same, or if they're difference from each other (DCR).

Both pickups arrived with no covers, and both appear to never had covers on them.

Both have silver coloured baseplates, with 4 Philips head screws attaching the bobbins.

The baseplates are the same on both - same leg length and dimesnsions.

The bobbins look the same on both.

Both use white 26 awg wire, with a signal and shield wire.

The tape looks the same on both.

I did remove the outside tape on the thicker one.

I didn't take the tape off of the 57 PAF sticker one, but I can see that it is an alnico magnet, and is conductive.

You can see that the unmarked one uses a thick ceramic magnet, that looks just like the one in my 1984 TLC-60.

This again makes me think that Tokai could have used the same pickup in multiple guitars, and called it something else OR they just installed whatever was available at the time, or something else entirely...

Since there are at least 2 similar looking pickups during this era with the Tokai PAF stickers on the back (a high DCR ceramic version, and a lower DCR alnico version), one way to tell them apart (maybe) is by looking at how much of the pole piece screw is sticking out of the bottom of the baseplate: longer = alnico, shorter = ceramic.

 

[ayrguitarist]

I had some of the PAF MKII pickups in a 1983 LS80 that I really didn’t bond with. In my opinion, the tone was kind of nasally, not full or balanced.

I wish there was a way to easily graph this stuff so you could see the tone of each pickup and compare them. Because just measuring the resistance, doesn’t really tell you what it sounds like. I think pick ups can read similarly and sound very different.

It's very true - DC resistance doesn't tell anything about the sound, and 2 similar spec pickups can sound very different.

Then there's playing style, string gauge, signal chain, and musical taste to consider, and the guitar itself.

 

[Sigmania]

1994 LS70

Neck: 10.06k
Bridge: 10.07k

1994 Tokai Love Rock LS-70 Quilted Maple Top Made in Japan

 

[Sigmania]

Looks like these were described as LSC F by 2010.

I had thought they were MK4. Possibly the same?

Front (Neck): Red lead wire
Rear (Bridge): Black lead wire

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275064698657

2015 Tokai LG50Q Electric Guitar with Gigbag - Transparent Black

For sale - a 2015 Tokai LG50Q in excellent condition and perfect working order. The LG50Q is Tokai's solution on getting an affordable PRS model into players hands. The Tokai LG50Q is a gig worthy guitar and has nice features like the Wilkinson bridge and versatile humbuckers designed by Tokai. This guitar is previously used, though, it doesn't show much wear and the pickups and back-plate covers still have the plastic on them. Still, there are some small signs such as faint surfaces scratches from use. The guitar has been professionally set up with smooth low playing action. Includes gigbag.

Specifications:

Serial Number - CN15000906 | Scale Length - 24.75" | Frets - 24 | Radius - 12" | Nut Width - 1.685" | Woods - Body: MPL Top/MHGNY Back Neck: RSWD Fretboard | Weight - 8 lbs 2 oz | Country of Origin - China

2010 catalog




2012 catalog



2015 catalog

 

[Sigmania]

I wanted to be sure I had the link to these tests done by hans-j?rgen back in 2005.

[Review] Testing bridge humbuckers in a 1981 Love Rock LS120

 

[settebello]

Tokai MH2. 7.3 and 7.8 KOhms.
https://www.kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/tokai-paf-mh2-the-59-in-aged-silver/2740974828-74-1923

 

[57goldtop]

1983 LS50 both pickups measured at output jack > 3M guitar cable
Neck: 8.01K
Bridge: 8.20K

 

[Sigmania]

1983 LS50 both pickups measured at output jack > 3M guitar cable
Neck: 8.01K
Bridge: 8.20K



View attachment 62271View attachment 62272

That’s very interesting.

I need to go back through all of these posts and be sure I have these readings assigned correctly then.

Are you sure that your guitar is an LS50 and not an LS60?

 

[57goldtop]

Yes, it's a1983 LS50.... still has the sticker on the back of the headstock.

 

[Sigmania]

Cool. I will try to carefully go through and make sure I have these values assigned correctly. Thanks!

 

[Sigmania]

I'm so confused. ayrguitarist's 1984 TLC60 has pickups described as the same as your 1983 TLS50, 57 PAF Vintage MK2 in the 1984 catalog. 1983 catalog specs are the same. Completely different readings. His measure over 18k.

His read 18.48k and have ceramic magnets.

 

[57goldtop]

Took some pics of the serial number and control cavity. Solder joints all look original so that confirms it left the factory with these pickups. First digit "3" is a little faint (seller didn't see it and mistakenly described it as a 1980 which adds to the confusion).

Edit: Errr hang on, on closer inspection do those solder joints really look original? And I don't think I've seen a cable tie in the control cavity before?

 

[Sigmania]

Solder looks good to me. I think we need more examples to try to sort this out. It may take a while.

Interesting that you have different caps than I have on my 1981 LS100 or my 1982 & 1983 LS80's. They all have the green Chicklet type caps and no tie wraps.

1981 LS100S ON


1982 LS80 (replaced pickups)


1983 LS80

 

[Sigmania]

I found this quote interesting. I had a 1983 LS80, pic of PCB above, and I did not like the 57 pickups in it. Definitely mid range heavy and lacked fullness. I thought of them as "nasally".

Note the the cover was removed and shows a zebra underneath.

There seems to be some variability in these, and the catalog description may not be that helpful.

Can't speak for everyone but in my '83 LS-80 they sound more midrangey and lack low end. They are also very hot pcikups.

 

[Sigmania]

Another member noting a ceramic magnet. 19.65k Ohms.

I've just fixed an old Tokai 57 PAF MODEL pickup which had a broken coil, and surprise! It has a ceramic magnet and reads 19,65 Kohms !
It has the regular sticker on the back plate and a regular white but short lead.
Where does this monster come from?

 

[Sigmania]

And the more PAF reading in a 1983 LS80.

Neck - 8,63 kOm
Bridge - 8,3 kOm

Apparently the ones he described above as "midrangey and lack low end". Exactly what I experienced in my 1983 LS80.

Taken from '83 Tokai Love Rock LS-80

Neck - 8,63 kOm
Bridge - 8,3 kOm

$100 + shipping (payment via PayPal)

 

[Sigmania]

Another data point for the 1983 TLS50 (7.75k Ohms).

Hello,

I have an 1983 Tokai LS 50 Love Rock. Plays well but the neck p/u has little bass. I've adjusted the amp to no avail. Other Tokai's Love Rocks I have with different P/u's sound good.

I took the pick/ups out, they have a sticker like an original Gibson PAF, says "Tokai 57 PAF model". Probably the originals. They both read 7.75 ohms.

My question is are these p/u's any good, maybe the neck is not working properly (very light bass)? I raised and lowered the pole pieces, no help.

I want to get a set of Seymour Duncan 59's, I like the vintage tone for classis rock but seems like the Tokai PAF's are copies of the 59's. I don't want to spend $150 and have the same tone..?

Any advice/

AJ

 

[Sigmania]

Another hot pair. Ceramic? Over 17k Ohms

What should these 57 PAFs read on ohm meter? I have 2 of them that both measure over 17k ohms. Seems way high for PAF.