New Member Looking For Info On a Local Tokai ES

[lewis_grey]

Hi all,

New member here and the extremely lucky owner of an incredible 2009 MIJ Tokai ES 1PX. The PX series was the limited run of high end guitars Tokai did for Pacifix a few years back, here's a pic...

Anyway, I'm actually here to ask a question about another guitar that is being advertised as a Tokai ES very locally to me for what seems to be a great price. It has been heavily modified but there are however a few big peculiarities and just wanted some advice on what this might be. Just for the record, this guy is claiming that this is an early law suit era Tokai but I don't believe that for a second, if it's a decent instrument however, it would still be a good deal.

The first question mark is the headstock which has obviously either been re-branded as a Gibson or started life as a Gibson copy. Have Tokai ever done a headstock like this on a MIJ model or at all? Looks like an Epiphone Sheraton shape headstock to me but the 2 screw truss rod cover is really throwing me!

Here's some pics of the actual guitar...

The guy apparently received it from a friend as a bare shell and completely overhauled it with new hardware, pickups etc. Looks like he's spent a bit money on it which leads makes me think it's not a total piece of crap otherwise why the investment right?....

Finally it has a Gibson sticker in the F-hole which is very suspect...

Anyway, it's only a few miles away so I'm going to look at it regardless to make an informed decision but if anyone on here can give me any information at all I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks a lot guys,
Lewis

 

[Paladin2019]

No idea what it could be, but it's not a Tokai.

Its quite common for people to claim that the no-name el-cheapo guitars they are selling have some sort of Tokai connection as a way to add value.

The TRC is a mystery, but everything else about it says Chinese copy to me. What's the cheeky chap asking for it?

 

[lewis_grey]

No idea what it could be, but it's not a Tokai.

Its quite common for people to claim that the no-name el-cheapo guitars they are selling have some sort of Tokai connection as a way to add value.

The TRC is a mystery, but everything else about it says Chinese copy to me. What's the cheeky chap asking for it?

Yes I agree, that does seem to be the most likely explanation here. Thanks for your 2 cents anyway!

He's asking ?400 (maybe $600, tad more) for it, which it isn't worth. On the off chance it turns out to be a decent guitar and taking into account all the aftermarket hardware and electronics on it, it may be worth making a low ball offer and see if he bites....but I'm half expecting it to be a dog in all honesty!

 

[marcusnieman]

I recall seeing that one for sale before.

 

[lewis_grey]

I recall seeing that one for sale before.

My dark sunburst Tokai in the first pic or the cherry one in the other pics I'm looking at?

I'm pretty sure the MIJ one I own was advertised around here.

 

[marcusnieman]

The cherry one....

 

[lewis_grey]

The cherry one....

Interesting, thanks.

 

[marcusnieman]

It just looks familiar.... a quirky one like this leaves a mental mark. Was/is it on eBay?

Kind of looks like this old Greco headstock shape:

http://www.sharpenedflat.com/guitarInventory/photo_32_Greco_SA_550R/headstock.jpg

Or this Ibanez shape:

http://www.chordism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Ibanez-V72-ECE-headstock-acoustic-guitar-photography.jpg

 

[Paladin2019]

?400! Personally I wouldn't pay more than ?150 for it if it played well.

 

[marcusnieman]

The white bound F holes are an indicator of a Matsumoku built guitar. The did early Greco and Ibanez guitars now that I think about it.

 

[lewis_grey]

The white bound F holes are an indicator of a Matsumoku built guitar. The did early Greco and Ibanez guitars now that I think about it.

Interesting, thanks for the info! Still a long way off conclusive, as plenty of chinese 335 copies have bound f holes too but who knows...the headstock is similar to those you posted but definitely different, the top tip is more pointed and narrower.

 

[lewis_grey]

It just looks familiar.... a quirky one like this leaves a mental mark. Was/is it on eBay?

Kind of looks like this old Greco headstock shape:

http://www.sharpenedflat.com/guitarInventory/photo_32_Greco_SA_550R/headstock.jpg

Or this Ibanez shape:

http://www.chordism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Ibanez-V72-ECE-headstock-acoustic-guitar-photography.jpg

Oh, and it's on gumtree right now. No idea if it has been on ebay in the past.

 

[funkilius]

I think this was on Ebay previously and if I recall correctly a discussion took place on this forum regarding its authencity etc............The fact that its still for sale or for sale again, may be an indication regarding same !!!

 

[lewis_grey]

I think this was on Ebay previously and if I recall correctly a discussion took place on this forum regarding its authencity etc............The fact that its still for sale or for sale again, may be an indication regarding same !!!

Cool thanks, that's good to know. If anyone finds the thread, please post it on here.

Would be curious to hear if anyone saw it in person and what they thought. It looks so suspect that I bet most wouldn't want to drive far to check it out, if it wasn't less than 5 miles away from me I sure wouldn't bother!

 

[lewis_grey]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gibson-es335-1964-by-Tokai-with-seymour-duncan-pickups-and-varitone-coil-tap-/200931403893?nma=true&si=jjwyq9ic83VvM7ErSu%252FlUdc%252FdiQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Found the old ebay ad, looks pretty darn shady....

Also says there was one winning bid but the seller is the same guy I'm dealing with. Makes me think the sale went pear shaped!

 

[marcusnieman]

That's it!! That's the one I remember!!....... well done!

 

[Paladin2019]

Mystery solved on that 2 screw TRC as well - the ebay ad shows a 3 screw version!

The Gibson thing must be an aftermarket face plate. Two fake logos on one headstock? How much shadier can this get? 8) :lol:

 

[marcusnieman]

That guitar is a good example of what we call "polishing a turd"

 

[lewis_grey]

Mystery solved on that 2 screw TRC as well - the ebay ad shows a 3 screw version!

The Gibson thing must be an aftermarket face plate. Two fake logos on one headstock? How much shadier can this get? 8) :lol:

The Tokai headstock pictured in the ad with the 3 screw TRC is a different guitar just featured to prove somehow that it's a genuine Tokai. Ironically, I think that's a fake Tokai headstock too!

I'm going to look at it tomorrow morning so I'll let you all know how it fairs!

Safe to say I'll try and catch the seller out on a few issues while I'm there....

 

[Paladin2019]

Safe to say I'll try and catch the seller out on a few issues while I'm there....

Omit no detail when you report back! Rubbing my hands together with glee on this one :lol: