Help confirming 1984 Breezysound

[Sigmania]

I was looking at the 1984/85 Vintage series catalog.

If we assume it is from one of those years, it looks like the BL color was an option for the TTE50 (1958 model) and the TTE80 (1948 model).

One main difference in the models was the bridge saddles? 3 versus 6 barrels. Too bad we don't have those to look at.

Another clue though is the pickups. The TTE50 had the TE MK2s and the TTE80 had the TE "Vintage" pickups.

I think TEBs may be the MK2s, TEA were the vintage? So looking like possibly a TTE50?

The other option I guess would be finish? I assume the 50 would have a thin poly finish and the 80 a lacquer?

Again, just guessing until someone comes along that knows for sure.

https://www.vintagejapanguitars.com.br/en/tokai-1984-1985-traditional-series-catalogue/

BTW, you might want to message Peter Mac. He has been collecting data on Tokais for over 40 years I believe. He would be a good source. I copied one of his message above.

 

[Bitsleftover]

Thanks again for all the input here! I really do appreciate it!

 

[Sigmania]

You're welcome. Just looking at your original questions...

It was definitely Made in Japan. As far as I know the Japanese factory at Hamamatsu was the only one that used those codes for matching necks & bodies. And in those days they did not mark the guitars Made In Japan since all Tokais were made in Japan.

And if he told you he bought it new in 1984, then that is a safe bet that that is accurate based on that odd serial number.

So I would wager you have a 1984 TTE50 BL (1958 model) with a replaced bridge and possibly replaced matching chrome control cover.


TTE-50 (M) 1958
•Solid Alder body
•Neck: (M) Maple one piece neck ('58U)
•Single-coil TE Vintage MKII Pickups
• 1 volume, 1 tone controls
• 3-position PU selector switch
• Traditional style hardware, with original 6 way bridge
• Finishes: (M) BL, GS, BB, MR

BTW, if that is accurate then it indeed had 6 barrel saddles like the one you saw.

Again, I could be wrong, but until someone has more info I would feel comfortable with that.

 

[Emiel]

[...]

Another clue though is the pickups. The TTE50 had the TE MK2s and the TTE80 had the TE "Vintage" pickups.

I think TEBs may be the MK2s, TEA were the vintage? So looking like possibly a TTE50?

[...]

You might be right there, with the TEB being the MK2, and the TEA the vintage pickup.

When I bought my '84 TExx, it came with the TEB pickups too, but the bridge had already been replaced. The serial number on the plate has 5 digits instead of 6... starts with 168xx. And the wear... well, let's say I still don't know what model it might be.

 

[Bitsleftover]

Wow!!! Just look at that beauty!!!! Stunning!
That all makes sense then. Thanks Emiel.
I just heard back from the previous owner. He said the bridge was indeed replaced in the 90s with a Gotoh. So I can close the file on that one. I wonder if id be able to find an original one to put it back to standard

 

[Sigmania]

[...]

Another clue though is the pickups. The TTE50 had the TE MK2s and the TTE80 had the TE "Vintage" pickups.

I think TEBs may be the MK2s, TEA were the vintage? So looking like possibly a TTE50?

[...]

You might be right there, with the TEB being the MK2, and the TEA the vintage pickup.

When I bought my '84 TExx, it came with the TEB pickups too, but the bridge had already been replaced. The serial number on the plate has 5 digits instead of 6... starts with 168xx. And the wear... well, let's say I still don't know what model it might be.

I think the N finish would make it the TTE55?

 

[Sigmania]

... well, let's say I still don't know what model it might be.

With the N finish and TEB pickups I would think TTE55.

5 digit serial number also indicates a TTE50/55.

Looks like the bridge and saddles were changed?

Is there an “N” stamped in one of the cavities?

With an N finish the other option is TTE80, but that would have had the TEA pickups, 4 digit serial number (?), and I believe lacquer finish.

 

[Sigmania]

I wonder if id be able to find an original one to put it back to standard

People sometimes part out Tokais and sell on eBay or Reverb.

What I am wondering about is how that bridge pickup is attached to the plate? Are you getting buzzing?

 

[Sigmania]

The serial number on the plate has 5 digits instead of 6... starts with 168xx.

On which plate? On the neck plate?

 

[Peter Mac]

Hi guys,

I would venture an opinion with this guitar and say I would consider it original TTE-50 BL from 1986.
All stamps and logos are correct - including the 6 digit number- but the body neck codes indicate a post-85 build . . not 1984.
1984 would have 7=12 and the body code would be in the control cavity, not under the rear pickup.
Again, I would say it is all original - congratulations.

regards
Peter Mac

 

[Sigmania]

Thanks Peter.

Very interesting, so no "=" makes it later than '85. I had wondered when that changed. Awesome.

And to clarify what is original, the bridge plate is not original and the seller even verified that he switched it to a GOTOH.

 

[Voidoid56]

Both pots are date-coded 74, which is april 1987. That also works with the 2XXXXX serial. On an earlier guitar with the vintage Fender neck-plate serial format, six digits would have signified an early CBS era copy, but I've only ever seen those (mostly on basses and Teles) beginning with a 1. I've had a pot-date '87 TST-50 with 22XXXX serial and seen several others, so it appears the Fender-format serials were gone by then.

 

[Sigmania]

Man, this is some really great info on a period of history at Tokai that is very confusing. Great stuff.

At least it looks like a TTE50 BL.

Date sounds a little harder to nail down. 1986 or 1987?

The solder on one of the pots looks messy. I doubt it left the fact like that, but who knows?

 

[Voidoid56]

I personally think there's little reason to distrust the pots, tbh, even if the solder might have been tampered with. That type does start to appear as early as during 1984 on some models. This one's in a 1984 TST-36 Limited Edition HH Strat. 42 for Feb 1984. One other pot in the same guitar is a s early as Sept '83. Serial was 111XXX.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/1xxUZov.jpg?1[/img]

73 for March 1987 in the early 50's-style TST-50 I had. Serial 222XXX.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Eus5Qmp.jpg[/img]

The date codes on these were cracked by the Burny community on the MLP forum, I think. They had it down by the time I got my first RLC about ten yeras ago and struggled to date it. Aside from various obscure detail and contruction tells, pot codes are often the best way of dating unserialled Burnys.

 

[Sigmania]

Awesome.

 

[Emiel]

With the N finish and TEB pickups I would think TTE55.

5 digit serial number also indicates a TTE50/55.

Looks like the bridge and saddles were changed?

Is there an “N” stamped in one of the cavities?

With an N finish the other option is TTE80, but that would have had the TEA pickups, 4 digit serial number (?), and I believe lacquer finish.

It's a N finish and a very thin one. Both body and neck are heavily worn so I don't think it's poly like on the TTE50/55/60... ?

I read once that in '84 the specs were all over the place? The guitar obviously belonged to someone who gigged it a lot, as next to the wear a lot of parts had been replaced. It came with non-original pots, bridge, saddles, etc. I have since had it refretted and replaced the pickups, pots, bridge saddles and it sounds great.

The serial number on the plate has 5 digits instead of 6... starts with 168xx.

On which plate? On the neck plate?

Yup, neck plate.

 

[Bitsleftover]

Fantastic information everyone.
Thank you so much for your help and sharing your knowledge.
Would mine have escaped the headstock reshaping due to being for the UK market?

 

[Sigmania]

Similar guitar to the OP:

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26292&p=197155#p197155

 

[Sigmania]

Looks like it’s for sale…

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tokai-Bre...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

From the listing:

Tokai Breezysound Tele Blonde TTE-50BL - Made in Japan Early/Mid 80s.


Here is an absolutely stunning example of the quality instruments that were produced by Tokai in the early days in Japan.


The previous owner says he bought the guitar in Birmingham UK in 1984.

Peter Mac, who is regarded as a leading authority on early Tokai guitars thinks the the neck and body codes, (which match) suggest a slightly later production of around 1986. Either way it is a beautify mid 80’s Japanese guitar which far exceeded the quality Fender was producing at the time.


This guitar features the original great sounding TEB pickups and untouched electrics. Original tuners which function correctly and is in overall excellent condition.


The only thing that is not original is the Bridge. When the guitar dropped into my hands it was fitted with a modern style Gotoh bridge with modern block saddles. The extra thick baseplate made the action sit quite high, so I have replaced it with a Wilkinson pressed steel bridge with brass compensated saddles. This not only looks the part (the TTE-50 was cloned from a 1958 Tele) it allowed me to set the action much lower when I was setting up.


Overall condition is very nice. Only a few small dings on the very thin lacquer. The neck is nice and straight.

The vintage frets are in great shape and the action is nice and low with good intonation.

The metal items display a nice age appropriate patina. It’s a lovely piece!


I intended this to be a keeper, but a tax bill and a wedding looming has forced me to change my plan. OK, Ill come clean….The Mrs to be has changed my plan! I’m sure in years to come i will be referring to this as the one that got away.


The prices of these guitars are only going up as the price of vintage fenders have risen above the reach of us mere mortals. Here’s your chance to own a really nice guitar with a few miles on the clock and a few stories to sing about.


Any questions or if you require gut-shots please get in touch.


I would much prefer collection of this guitar but will box-up and ship if you are willing to cover the cost of insurance etc. Please get in touch to discuss.


Tweed amp and case not included.


I have not used any filters or editing of these photographs other than to crop the edges to miss out my feet etc. What you see is what you get.

 

[Bitsleftover]

Unfortunately yes.
My tax bill came through last week and something has to go. I’m working on a last in first out basis. So unfortunately this must go. Although I’m becoming increasingly attached to it and I might have to rethink that and move one of my strats instead.
It really is a lovely guitar. I’d love to keep hold of it.