Tokai Goldstar Sound model

[Anonymous]

Yep we need to have a look at some Grecos, but you know if it is a Tokai body then it could still have been made by Greco in a similar situation to the Tokai LS-50s that have the dowel tenon joint, or that LP that Jacco has with Tokai routing for the pickups, tokai tenon, but a 2 piece neck and a (I think it was) Burny logo?

Hold on a minute, I thought all MIJ Tokais were made by Tokai? But Greco was just a brand, same as Fernandes, right? I know some Fernandes guitars were made by Tokai, is that true for Grecos as well?

 

[muccax]

i have seen some inked serial love rock model that i think fujigen made from the early 80 ,,,, and i know tokai made some lp model for fujigen i the late 80 ..... but never heard that fujigen made fender models for tokai

 

[jacco]

i have seen some inked serial love rock model that i think fujigen made from the early 80 ,,,, and i know tokai made some lp model for fujigen i the late 80 ..... but never heard that fujigen made fender models for tokai

There's Japanese sources that say there was a second Tokai plant in the early 80s in Matsumoto which is the same town Fujigen is in and the dowel tenon ink stamped LS50/60s should originate from.

 

[JVsearch]

i have seen some inked serial love rock model that i think fujigen made from the early 80 ,,,, and i know tokai made some lp model for fujigen i the late 80 ..... but never heard that fujigen made fender models for tokai

There's Japanese sources that say there was a second Tokai plant in the early 80s in Matsumoto which is the same town Fujigen is in and the dowel tenon ink stamped LS50/60s should originate from.

That would be a "Tokai plant" I think.

 

[JVsearch]

Yep we need to have a look at some Grecos, but you know if it is a Tokai body then it could still have been made by Greco in a similar situation to the Tokai LS-50s that have the dowel tenon joint, or that LP that Jacco has with Tokai routing for the pickups, tokai tenon, but a 2 piece neck and a (I think it was) Burny logo?

Hold on a minute, I thought all MIJ Tokais were made by Tokai? But Greco was just a brand, same as Fernandes, right? I know some Fernandes guitars were made by Tokai, is that true for Grecos as well?

Yeah I was just saying Greco but mean whoever was making them.

I believe that whoever made Grecos in around the late 70s/early 80s also made some Tokai guitars for whatever reason. It's not inconceivable that Greco may have been called upon to supply some Strat bodies for Tokai which resulted in the OP's guitar. There could be many reasons why they would do this, such as running out of some woods, or not having the spare production capacity to produce a particular model.

We definitely know that there are some LS-50s with a dowel tenon joint and personally I don't believe they were made by Tokai. Why would they decide to produce their LP copy with the tenon joint from another copier when they were already set up to produce their own perfectly good tenon joint?

 

[jacco]

i have seen some inked serial love rock model that i think fujigen made from the early 80 ,,,, and i know tokai made some lp model for fujigen i the late 80 ..... but never heard that fujigen made fender models for tokai

There's Japanese sources that say there was a second Tokai plant in the early 80s in Matsumoto which is the same town Fujigen is in and the dowel tenon ink stamped LS50/60s should originate from.

That would be a "Tokai plant" I think.

This is a quote I used before from a Japanese collector I had contact with about this issue:

Konnichiwa Jacco,

Grecos were made in Matsumoku (Matsumoto Mokkou) factory
in Matsumoto, that was definitely different from Nagano
factory of Tokai Gakki in Matsumoto.

Best regards
Hiroyuki Yamauchi

 

[jacco]

I've looked again at the upper pup cavity of a dowel tenon Greco & a dowel tenon Tokai. The cavity is the same with both flat bottom surface (no cut out for the pickup tabs) but the routing is different; Greco wires come out on the right and Tokai on the left.
Also the font of the ink stamp is different.

Tokai:

http://imageevent.com/chingo123/feb...s604917?p=39&w=4&n=1&c=4&m=-1&s=0&y=0&z=2&l=0

http://imageevent.com/chingo123/february2010/tokailoverocksbls604917?p=40&w=4&c=4&n=0&m=-1&s=0&y=0&z=2&l=0

Greco:

http://imageevent.com/chingo123/june2010/grecoeg700lpsblack5273?p=33&w=4&n=1&c=4&m=-1&s=0&y=0&z=2&l=0

http://imageevent.com/chingo123/june2010/grecoeg700lpsblack5273?p=34&w=4&c=4&n=0&m=-1&s=0&y=0&z=2&l=0

 

[Anonymous]

I hope we're not drifting into supposition here? First, is the detail on the LPs actually relevant to the Strats? Second, is it a good idea to make the assumption that some Tokai Strats were "probably" made by another company for Tokai without any hard evidence that it's true? Before we know it, this "fact" will be accepted as the truth because people read it on the Tokai Forum.

 

[jacco]

I hope we're not drifting into supposition here? First, is the detail on the LPs actually relevant to the Strats? Second, is it a good idea to make the assumption that some Tokai Strats were "probably" made by another company for Tokai without any hard evidence that it's true? Before we know it, this "fact" will be accepted as the truth because people read it on the Tokai Forum.

The assumption that some Tokai strats were made by another company for Tokai can only be made if there's more examples like this. And if there are the most easy way is look at the routing because that's were you can distinguish the plants.
So I think it's best not to assume anything untill there's more examples.

 

[JVsearch]

I hope we're not drifting into supposition here...

Oh yes, I am definitely!
It's only my theory, let's get that 100% clear.

In fact the concept is not unusual even with western companies in some areas, for example all the badge sharing and common models in the car industry. There's loads of other stuff too where a manufacturer makes major components for another manufacturer who sort of, just puts those components together in their own design. The key part of the idea is that the OEM manufacturer makes a special version of one of its existing components, and it will look slightly different to the version that I could buy from that OEM manufacturer.

The front pickup cavity shots are interesting - the wiring for the switch does not pass through the Tokai cavity plus the other stuff, so the bodies have definitely been routed differently. I'm not sure what it means though - it doesn't prove anything either way for me (yet), because we may be able to find a Greco LP that looks like the Tokai.

That quote of yours from the Japanese collector - seems to suggest that there was a Tokai and Greco factory very close to each other at one point. So I may have to revise my theory to be that Tokai were making some guitars for Greco, but when that stopped they had some spare bodies left so they built them as Tokais! :lol:

In the absence of an official statement from Tokai I just can't believe that they started using a dowel tenon on their LP copy when it already had a perfectly good tenon design taken from the first years of the reintroduced 1968 Gibson LP. The dowel tenon joint seems like an overly complicated and more costly solution to what they were already using?

 

[JVsearch]

Here's a guy selling a 1980 LS-50 who claims it was made in Nagano:

http://translate.google.com/transla...e5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e107034351

Internet rumours becoming truth and used as a sales pitch?
Or the truth being used as a sales pitch?

Depends where the seller's information came from I guess and it still doesn't tell us anything about what might have been going on in a Nagano Tokai factory. Interesting stuff though!

 

[Sigmania]

Old thread but so far unsolved.

Seems to be a Partscaster.

Body is from the early 90s.

Six Digit Serial Numbers Starting With 01xxxx 1991 1992

Pickups and wiring from after 2003.

ROHS Label On Pickups

Neckplate is from mid 80s. SN 1018440.

Six Digit Serial Numbers Starting with 10xxxx