Long tenon, short tenon

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A

Anonymous

Guest
Please allow me to apologize upfront. I am lost to some extent.

Below you'll see pics of

'05 LS320
'81 LS150
'06 LS65 (UK)
'05 LS125SEB

The LS320 has a long tenon (?).
The LS150 is supposed to have long tenon but doesn't (?).
The LS125 should have a long tenon according to the catalog (?).
The LS65 neck-joint looks just like the 150 and the 125 to me.

Am I looking for the wrong points all the time?

:eek: :eek: :eek:
Cheers! Rupert

shortLS65.jpg

short150.jpg

short125.jpg

lon320.jpg
 
Sorry, the pics were not uploaded in the right sequence.
1) LS65
2) LS150
3) LS125
4) LS320
 
Sorry for the pics, they were taken at different times, even with 2 differtent cameras.
R
 
It is a bit odd and I wish I could help. But bear this in mind: any tokai tenon is still vastly superior to Gibson's attempts at a neck joint these days. The only difference between a standard tokai tenon and the so-called 'long' version is that the long tenon has a lip that extends under the neck pickup. How much difference do you think that lip makes?

They only started putting long tenons on the high end models because of the demand for true vintage spec.
 
Well,...

the "lip" is clearly existing on all of the above. However, it is "thickest" in the 320.

I understand that the '59 or similar spec demand it and that Gibbo does not do them like Tokai on most (beside their most expensive) models.

Do you think it's fair to say that if the neck-joint (not the lip) is "even" with the pickup cavity that it is a long tenon?

:eek:
 
Hi!
This is all long tenon! Forget bout that lip! The main thing ist the length until the neck pu cavitiy, and much more important the straight flat bottom of the tenon. That?s where the tone?s made, where the neck meets the body, and that?s the main point (beside the quality of the woods) where good sounding Les Paul style guitars come alive.
good on ya, "ACY"

tenonhalfz.jpg
 
rgrafend said:
Do you think it's fair to say that if the neck-joint (not the lip) is "even" with the pickup cavity that it is a long tenon?

:eek:
Click to expand...

Personally? Yes I do. There are some who would debate the point, but the fact is that tokai's neck joint has all the structural and tonal benefits of a "true" long tenon.

Most people seem to refer to the Gibson version as "short", the vintage type "long" and the tokai one "medium".
 
All of the pictures shown, with the possible exception of the LS320
are "medium" tenon.

That space at the base of the neck is usually just a routed section in the back of the body. You have to look closely at the LS320 to see if the grain of the neck matches the grain of the "pocket" area.

The "original" way of doing it left a small open area at the base of the tenon. However some manufacturers noteably Edwards does not leave this space.

Here is a good site that illustrates the differences:
http://rsdaizo.hp.infoseek.co.jp/Tokai%20Les%20Paul%20page%201.shtml

The top illustration is the traditional "long-tenon"
The Tokai one is the "medium" tenon
and the bottom one is the "short" tenon as used by Gibson on the non-re-issue Les Pauls.

here is a great pic of a long tenon (from a Bacchus BLS-120):
bacchus.jpg


Here is a pic from a Tokai LS320:
LS320.jpg
 
Nice Bacchus tenon ... 8)

... and ... according to your pics ...

The LS320 on the first posting is the only one that has got one ... with the historic lip ... period !! 8)

LS120 Reborn without the lip ...

Tokai79LS120-022.jpg


My LS150 without the lip ...
T20.jpg


Marcus' JP Edwards with the lip ... and no space like Bacchus has ...
marcus15.jpg


Roger

BTW - I agree to ACY's opinion that the influence of the lip is overrated ... my LS150 sings with the similar sustain as my Edwards ...
 
It is a photo to be useful for.


'05 LS320
'81 LS150 ?
'06 LS65 (UK)
'05 LS125SEB


I think that an article number is not wrong.

I think that the second piece photograph is 80s LS-150.
 
rgrafend said:
short150.jpg
Click to expand...

Rupert,

Do you have a lower angle shot of that pup cavity?

I think I see the same kind of color variation near the edge, and I think a few pic's might help to clarify the status of the disputed top on my 82 LS100:

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4108&start=15&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

best pics & description near bottom of page 2.

Scott
 
Roger,

Something like this, that shows the center seam and also the thin line of bright color near the upper edge of the top in the pickup cavity. Also I'd be interested to see other cavity at thios kind of angle to see if they have that kind of "chamfer" around the corners as in the second pic.

P1000479.jpg


whereditgo.jpg
 

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