ZAKK WYLDE TOKAI BULLSEYE LES PAUL COPY

[Ozeshin]

Who are u? The Tokai Forum Fuzz? LMAO

BTW, I'm now tired with this issue and stop posting in that thread ...

and togps would appear to be their Chief Superintendent

 

[space_114]

Just my two cents on the Tokai Zakk Wylde Bullseye . Fact - They were made for the Canadian market. I have two friends who have them and were present when both were bought in 2004 at local music stores in T.O.
If you can find one ... Buy it !!! having played them ... They are nice and YES better than the Epi models. Searial info etc and build construction appear similar to my MIK Tokai goldtop !! . A nice collector Tokai guitar !! according to several music stores in T.O that know of the Zakk Tokai models

 

[leadguitar_323]

The Zakk Wylde Tokai's are NOT Tokai's, they are FAKE. They were ordered by Active Musical Products in Canada from a factory in Korea and were not commissioned by Tokai. There is plenty of info on this site about these guitars, they may not be bad guitars but they are definitely NOT Tokai's.....
And FACT....this information came directly from Tokai in Japan, like i said .....look up the forum and see for yourself.
This thread led me to do lots of research and Togps and others that said that these were fake's were 100% correct Tokai do not make player replicas like "Zakk" or" Page" Models, so Active Musical Products had a different factory in Korea {not the factory Tokai uses, maybe the factory that makes "Dillion" guitars}, to make these guitars......in no way did Tokai endorse these guitars.


Mick

 

[Big Willie Style]

If Tokai didn't make replicas, then how do you explain the Tokai Tremonti singlecuts that were produced in extremely limited numbers and then cancelled due to legal pressure from PRS. I remember reading somewhere that there were only 50 made (but I very well could be wrong on that). I believe the model number was TRS2002.

Jason

 

[leadguitar_323]

Hi Willie, never heard of that one, they also do a "Hisashi" model Talbo {not forum member Hisashi}as well but i was referring to the LP models. :wink:

Mick

 

[space_114]

what year were they made ? - 2004 & 2005
: is the year in the serial # ? First two digits
: how many were made? Less than a 800 0r approx 400 per year
: how do I find out what # mine is? The digits after the first two
: how much did they sell for when they came out? - approx $750.00cdn
: what are the pick ups in it ( they are not EMGs) - PAF copies (They sound great !!)

If you can find one of these GRAB IT !! these unauthorized Tokai guitars made in the same factory in Korea as the Tokai's were made are far superior to the models Tokai had made there at that time due to the Canadian distributor bypassing Tokai and having them spec'd with
1/4 sawn rock maple necks and mahogony bodies. Totally collectable !!

 

[Diamond]

these unauthorized Tokai guitars made in the same factory in Korea as the Tokai's were made are far superior to the models Tokai had made there at that time

BS.

 

[looktoyourorb]

If one of my distributors bypassed my company they'd soon be ex distributors. You cannot use somebody registered brand to build your own guitars - that's a criminal offense.

However, Tokai may have allowed a limited run with different specs and if so they should be able to confirm this.

 

[Big Willie Style]

these unauthorized Tokai guitars made in the same factory in Korea as the Tokai's were made are far superior to the models Tokai had made there at that time

BS.

As I've said on other posts, I've visited a shop close to my house here in Korea and the owner said he used to have the contract for Tokai in Korea. He said he's been to their Japan factory a few times, yadda yadda. I know for certain he has commissioned other guitars made at the same factry that were long after Tokai moved out of Korea as I've seen them in his shop and he's showed me some in the box. Whether the bullseye and other Canadian Fakais were done in the same manner is anyone's guess. But I do know that the factory that made Tokai in Korea continued to make them for the asking, long after Tokai pulled out and moved to China.

Jason

 

[Paladin2019]

Totally collectable !!

Being a rather dry, cynical person I normally only allow myself to enjoy a wry smile when I find something amusing on the internet.

These two words genuinely made me laugh out loud. :lol:

Such an old thread though... trolling maybe?

 

[stratmoto]

these unauthorized Tokai guitars made in the same factory in Korea as the Tokai's were made are far superior to the models Tokai had made there at that time

BS.

As I've said on other posts, I've visited a shop close to my house here in Korea and the owner said he used to have the contract for Tokai in Korea. He said he's been to their Japan factory a few times, yadda yadda. I know for certain he has commissioned other guitars made at the same factry that were long after Tokai moved out of Korea as I've seen them in his shop and he's showed me some in the box. Whether the bullseye and other Canadian Fakais were done in the same manner is anyone's guess. But I do know that the factory that made Tokai in Korea continued to make them for the asking, long after Tokai pulled out and moved to China.

Jason

Looking at the situation from the position of the marketing department at the Japanese factory in Hamamatsu, which would be hypothetical, because there is no marketing department, once production of Tokai guitars was started outside Japan, the problems started.

Take the motto, "Quality before Quantity". Let me tell you for a fact that if you visit one of the Chinese factories that are making Tokais, and in particular the modified headstock UK models, you may spot some overproduction sitting around. If you ask about them with an interest in buying them........no problem, how many would you like sir?

Supply with the previous factory was always a problem, which was OK as long as you believed that "Quality before Quantity" was the reason for this.

Rather than keep the market supply slightly short, and therefore retain some of the mystique and exclusivity that the Tokai name had earned over time, the modified headstock models were commissioned to be made in another factory, outside Tokai Japans direct control.

The result, more guitars, at a cheaper buying price than the guitars that were ordered by Tokai Gakki. Of course, the distributor pays Tokai Gakki a royalty for using the Tokai logo.

The end result is cheaper guitars for that particular market. Also, the leakage of the same product through domestic Chinese buyers is a problem. These end up all over the world and are being sold as you read this as legitimate Tokais, under the mistaken belief that they are being sold through the Tokai network, which they are not.

The non exististant marketing department are not concerned about other markets and their distributors, including their own Japanese domestic market, it would seem.

Supply of Japanese made Tokais has always been at a premium and I remain steadfast on backing up the quality of the guitars that I have seen. Although the guitar that warxy recently bought needed a fret level and crown, straight out of the box. I have never seen this before and may be, along with the reported inlay issues, be a sign of things to come.

"Quality before Quantity" Simple and to the point. It means what it says.

Or, maybe it did. I know for a fact that Tokai are desperate to sell more guitars at the moment, particularly after having lost the Fender Japan contract. Yes, they build some Schecters, and some other niche brands but they are all small fry products compared to Fender.

Unfortunately, I am seeing that Tokai may face some humiliation in the not too distant future. The only difference being rather than making replicas of American guitars and clearly branding them Tokai, it will be their own brand name that brings them into question in the marketplace.

The marketing department would understand, only if it cared to take its eyes off the royalty cheques.

How, or indeed if, Tokai adress the problem remains to be seen.

Time will tell, and I will be watching.

 

[felixcatus]

Supply of Japanese made Tokais has always been at a premium and I remain steadfast on backing up the quality of the guitars that I have seen. Although the guitar that warxy recently bought needed a fret level and crown, straight out of the box. I have never seen this before and may be, along with the reported inlay issues, be a sign of things to come.

Just to inform that it?s not a single case. My (new)Tokai ULS80 arrived with a severe buzz all over the place. Tried several times to adjust it, without much improvement. Took it to a tech ,he said it?s basically a very fine instrument but someone did a poor job assembling it(in Belgium whe call it a monday product). He had to level the frets, reshape the nut, file down and level the saddles to adjust the radius of the bridge and of course a full set-up with new strings.

PS: I?m not criticizing,it's just the facts. I really like this guitar. That?s why I took it to a tech instead of sending it back.

 

[Big Willie Style]

My ES-120 came without one of the volume pots even wired, and that was in '02. The tech I took it to in Canada said it was one of the nicest guitars he's ever seen/played, with one of the worst wiring jobs he'd ever seen.

Jason

 

[space_114]

This can be argued back and and forth and yes the Canadain distributor was dropped because of this - and yes the quality of these Canadian Fakais guitars are if you can find one excellent with superior materials than real offshore legimate Tokais built at that time - This arguement can be summed up to one word - OUTSOURCING . This is what Tokai did at the time and lost control of their brand - happens all the time ! Mel the Canadain distributor fortunately had really good guitars built during this time bearing the Tokai name and if you were lucky enough to buy one you got a really good guitar for a fraction of what is availabe to date when comparing build quality and materails used - The Zakk model amongst many others for Canada at the time where excellent buys and play like a dream- The Zakk model just happend to be made in much smaller qunatities and was one of the few custom models available - as for the Tokai name on them , who cares - It's not the wand it's the wizard !! but if you can get a Canadain Fakai from 2004 - 2005 buy it you won't be sorry , I would know !! - i will post pic's of both of mine shortly along with my Epi custom and my LP 2007 standard.

 

[Paladin2019]

i will post pic's of both of mine shortly

So it's self-justification, bordering on self-delusion.

It doesn't matter if they were good or not - we all agree they were on par with other bog standard MIKs of the time - you cannot justify or encourage these products. There are laws against this sort of thing for a reason, did you ever consider that? Trading off someone else's good name for example? Misleading anyone who buys one of these on ebay? :roll: And if there are stores in Toronto promoting them then they are breaking the law too.

By the way, I did get your PM. It doesn't matter if you have an "abundance of quality wood" in Canada, those guitars were made in Korea and nobody but them knows exactly what wood was used in which model; although I think we can pretty much guarantee that they didn't have Canadian raw materials specially sent over to them. Especially mahogany, since it only grows in tropical environments.

 

[Big Willie Style]

If they are mahogany, they're probably of a hot dog variety - all the lips and arseholes left over after making other guitars pieced together to make these. I hear they are quite good. My buddy bought a bullseye before I filled him in on them and he loves it. He's got a Gibby, about 18 other guitars including Fender and PRS and this is his main gigging guitar now. To each his own I guess.

Jason

 

[looktoyourorb]

I'm not knocking the quality of the Fakais, they may be as good as they get, just questioning the business ethics and trademark violation.

To be honest I understand your mate. The only axes I would gig with are not PRS or Gibson - too many risks associated with taking these out. It does not mean I like them less but I would hate the idea of breaking or losing my good axes to a sneaky individual. I also hate the idea of a half drunk PRS fan to try to give them a go...

The outdoor axes are my PRS SE (Korean) and Strat (Mexican). They both kick *ss btw.

 

[space_114]

You must be joking - and Tokai doesn't copy ? I agree as to the misleading point you raise although these units other than not being authorized to be built by Tokai were made in the same factory etc , etc just better than the ones Tokai had made there , if anything they carry the Tokai name better than their own MIK units , fortunately in this case the product was excellent as not normally alwyas is the case with copies, as for encouraging the product , Why not - if they are quality for the cost, let's face it everything comes down to cost that is why Tokai had models built outside Japan in the first place - as for laws ? like none of us don't copy anything or try to save a buck any way we can -Right ?, The one issue with copyrights is they do not allow for competition and allow for mfg's to slack off on their quality in many cases until unauthorized copies show them up -Tokai obviously is no exception to this , as for the wood - Yes it was Canadian wood used on these units, as for wood quality - This is a term used outside of this country as we use "quality" maple and other select woods on everything due to the overwhleming abundance of all types of woods here , espically Maple. The point to all of this was to not knock the Canadian Fakais as they are without question superior to the authorized MIK Tokai guitars and are worthy of the Tokai name regardless, when compared.

So it's self-justification, bordering on self-delusion.

It doesn't matter if they were good or not - we all agree they were on par with other bog standard MIKs of the time - you cannot justify or encourage these products. There are laws against this sort of thing for a reason, did you ever consider that? Trading off someone else's good name for example? Misleading anyone who buys one of these on ebay? :roll: And if there are stores in Toronto promoting them then they are breaking the law too.

By the way, I did get your PM. It doesn't matter if you have an "abundance of quality wood" in Canada, those guitars were made in Korea and nobody but them knows exactly what wood was used in which model; although I think we can pretty much guarantee that they didn't have Canadian raw materials specially sent over to them. Especially mahogany, since it only grows in tropical environments.[/quote]

 

[greco_burst]

You must be joking - and Tokai doesn't copy ? I agree as to the misleading point you raise although these units other than not being authorized to be built by Tokai were made in the same factory etc , etc just better than the ones Tokai had made there , if anything they carry the Tokai name better than their own MIK units , fortunately in this case the product was excellent as not normally alwyas is the case with copies, as for encouraging the product , Why not - if they are quality for the cost, let's face it everything comes down to cost that is why Tokai had models built outside Japan in the first place - as for laws ? like none of us don't copy anything or try to save a buck any way we can -Right ?, The one issue with copyrights is they do not allow for competition and allow for mfg's to slack off on their quality in many cases until unauthorized copies show them up -Tokai obviously is no exception to this , as for the wood - Yes it was Canadian wood used on these units, as for wood quality - This is a term used outside of this country as we use "quality" maple and other select woods on everything due to the overwhleming abundance of all types of woods here , espically Maple. The point to all of this was to not knock the Canadian Fakais as they are without question superior to the authorized MIK Tokai guitars and are worthy of the Tokai name regardless, when compared.

So it's self-justification, bordering on self-delusion.

It doesn't matter if they were good or not - we all agree they were on par with other bog standard MIKs of the time - you cannot justify or encourage these products. There are laws against this sort of thing for a reason, did you ever consider that? Trading off someone else's good name for example? Misleading anyone who buys one of these on ebay? :roll: And if there are stores in Toronto promoting them then they are breaking the law too.

By the way, I did get your PM. It doesn't matter if you have an "abundance of quality wood" in Canada, those guitars were made in Korea and nobody but them knows exactly what wood was used in which model; although I think we can pretty much guarantee that they didn't have Canadian raw materials specially sent over to them. Especially mahogany, since it only grows in tropical environments.

[/quote]

What a load of BS....
Get your facts right first, in relation to what is a copy and what is fake. :roll:

 

[JVsearch]

The problem is that these Canadian fakes would have been fine if they had a logo on them like, er, say, "Twatty" or something like that.

But they have a Tokai logo, and were not officially commissioned by Tokai or made with Tokai's permission. This is wrong, end of, and you will get no joy here using the "Tokai copies as well" argument, because this is the Tokai Forum so it doesn't matter that every successful guitar that Tokai ever produced was copied from Gibson or Fender. :lol:

And really, it's only because Gibson and Fender did things first. The LP and Strat etc would have still been created by somebody IMO - there aren't too many other shapes for guitar bodies that are comfortable, functional and good looking.