Why Tokai?

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stelyn

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Firstly, thanks to bluejeannot for establishing the neck profile of my 1984 TST60L as a "c" and the body as being alder. Here's the contentious bit - although I have owned this guitar since 1984 when I bought it brand new in Solihull, I have always been embarrased about the fact that it is not a genuine California built Stratocaster - should I feel this bad? People have told me that, in fact, Tokai were manufacturing Strats on behalf of Fender around 1984 because Fender themselves couldn't keep up with production. Some would say that the build quality of a 1984 Tokai is better than a Fullerton Strat.
The only criticism that I have of my TST60L is the neck profile - I much prefer that of my Fender Telecaster (which I believe to be Indonesian built sometime in the '90s) and my China built Strat Squier. However, this comes down to personal choice I fully realise.
I am abought to purchase a 335 copy and am attracted to a blonde Aria TA50-QM (primarily because they offer a left handed version). Should I be looking for a Tokai equivalent (maybe secondhand)? If so, why Tokai, and where can I find a left handed model?
Finally, who is hoarding all the guitars of the 1960s? Where are my left handed Burns short scale Jazz, Burns Vista Sonic bass, Fender Precision and Rickenbacker 2004? I would love to buy them back!
 
Why Tokai?

In the '70s, both Fender and Gibson made drastic changes to most of their flagship guitars. When people asked for reissues of Les Pauls and Flying V's and Explorers, Gibson basically told people "those models were sales failures (that's why we stopped making them) and you don't really want reproductions, we know better than that -- what you really want are 15 pound Les Pauls with pancake bodies, bigger heads, shallower head angles, simpler top carve, short tenons, 3-piece necks with volutes, and fat binding in the cutaway".

Fender never disowned Strats and Teles, but they too had tunnel vision. They were so sure that heavy Northern Ash bodies, Mazak (zinc) bridges & saddles, 3-bolt necks and Bullet truss rods were "improvements" that they didn't see any need to offer a traditional Strat. They figured they made changes in the mid '60s and sales and profits went up, so the same thing would happen when they made another round of "improvements".

Gibson dropped the original run of Les Pauls in '61 and when Norlin bought the company the Les Pauls they produced in the '70s were basically a different model that were somewhat similar in appearance to the originals. Fender had dropped ash Strats in the mid '50s, dropped one-piece necks in mid'59 and switched to rosewood fretboards (optional maple cap necks were rare special orders), and then when CBS bought the company they dropped the small head in '65/'66, dropped nitro in '67, and dropped the 4-bolt heel-adjust neck and the steel bridge in '72. And despite customers and dealers begging for "ones like they used to make", they sold every new-spec guitar they could make so they saw no reason to fill what they thought would be a tiny niche market.

But then Tokai, Greco, Burny and others saw an opportunity. Instead of making copies of the guitars CBS and Norlin were currently making, why not make the original Fender and Gibson designs that the new owners of those companies had abandoned? They interpreted those designs as having become public domain due to non-use/non-protection by their original owners, and there's no clear cut answer whether that's a correct interpretation -- some courts agree, some disagree.

And even when the replicas sold well in the Japanese market (the second largest guitar market in the world) despite the fact that many cost just as much (or more) than new Gibsons or Fenders, Norlin and CBS ignored the trend. When the Japanese replicas began to make inroads into the US, Norlin and CBS didn't respond by making replicas of their own and slugging it out in the marketplace -- they took it to court to deny entry of those guitars into the US. They didn't just abandon those US consumers who wanted '50s replicas by refusing to make replicas -- they prevented those consumers from acquiring the replicas they refused to make.

In the late '70s, a few dealers commissioned special custom runs of replicas from Gibson. Leo's, Jimmy Wallace, and Guitar Trader ordered '59 replicas but Norlin dragged their feet. They were willing to do 1-piece mahogany necks (instead of their concurrent 3-piece maple Les Paul necks), but the first batches still had short tenons and shallow carves. Guitar Trader got so frustrated with the hardware that they started replacing the bridge, tailpiece, and tuners with Japanese parts. (The Japanese companies were putting original spec aluminum stopbars and wireless ABR's on their high end guitars back in '78 -- Gibson didn't re-adopt aluminum stopbars until the late '90s.) And then after they had cobbled together about a thousand "kinda sorta almost replicas" they stopped. During the '80s they played around with some even less accurate "reissues", but it wasn't until Norlin sold the name to Henry J and the eventual introduction of the Historic series that they finally offered something as accurate as the Japanese models.

Fender wouldn't even entertain the notion of "reissues" until early/mid '80s. But to their credit, when FMIC bought the Fender name from CBS they immediately jumped into the replica model. The new management studied the Japanese guitars rather than ignore them. Still, it took them until '97 to get the 12th fret inlay spacing correct on their reissues.

In my opinion, Tokai et al rescued Strats, Teles, Les Pauls, Explorers, SGs, Flying Vs from the disastrous direction the previous owners of those names had been taking them, both in design vision and build quality. I'll always remember the bitterness I felt towards Gibson and Fender in the '70s and early '80s. I applaud the current owners of the Fender and Gibson names for finally doing what the previous owners should have been doing back in the '70s and '80s, but the Japanese did replicas first, and also offered updated, "modernized" versions that had a better grasp of what had made those designs classic. Bill Smith, who led the FMIC buyout of Fender, credits the Japanese replicas as inspiring FMIC's direction. To me, the late '70s/early '80s Japanese Strats are almost as important a part of Strat history as the original '50s Strats -- a beacon that lit the way to a rebirth, a purification of the original design that had become corrupted by the corporation that owned the Fender brand name. I wouldn't see your '84 Tokai as anything other than a real Strat -- I'd be proud to own one of the guitars that inspired the Fender brand to improve their products.

As to whether you should buy a Tokai 335 instead of an Aria, I have no opinion.

That turned out longer than I intended -- sorry.
 
Excellent post bobwise, I've nothing to add as I think that sums up what makes Tokai special in regard to other guitar brands.

As far as lefty Tokais go, they are like buses. You never see one for ages and then three appear together. Then you have the price issue whereby some sellers put an enormous premium on the lefty and other times they go for low ???'s compared to righty versions.

I know what you mean about the Squier necks. I had a Squier Telecaster Deluxe made in Indonesia and the neck on that was perfect for me. I didn't like the sound and so I sold it after deciding it wasn't worth modifying. Make an effort to try out the Ibanez AS73 (335 clone) the Ibanez neck is nice, 3-piece maple/mahogany like the 70's Gibsons and better IMHO than the scarf joint neck on the Aria.

stelyn, could you check the stamp markings on the pickups on your Goldstar please.? Maybe next time you change strings, you see we are still trying to unearth knowledge on the TST-60 and TST-65 models to determine the differences between them and the TST-50. Thanks
 
stelyn said:
although I have owned this guitar since 1984 when I bought it brand new in Solihull, I have always been embarrased about the fact that it is not a genuine California built Stratocaster - should I feel this bad? People have told me that, in fact, Tokai were manufacturing Strats on behalf of Fender around 1984 because Fender themselves couldn't keep up with production. Some would say that the build quality of a 1984 Tokai is better than a Fullerton Strat.

Well bobwise has written an excellent piece, very little to add to that. The only thing I would add is that Fender US brought out their re-issues in 1982, the same year as the new Fender Japan range came out. They were excellent guitars, regardless of dot spacing on the neck. For some reason, despite Fender getting back on the right track, CBS decided to sell the company in 1984, but the trend towards quality re-issues had already been established - the new company's first production in 1986 was making reissues from left over Fullerton bits! I know, I have one. :wink:

Bob is quite right, in my opinion - Fender & Gibson owe Tokai a lot. Tokai showed (from 1978) that making quality vintage re-issues was the way to go, & the way to be profitable too. I have a couple of Fullertons, & I love them. But my 1980 Springy ST80 is of very similar quality, plus it's a little piece of history - in 1980 there weren't any Fender vintage re-issues, only Tokais and a few other Japanese versions. So that makes a Springy a fascinating piece of Fender's history, even if Fender may not see it like that.

Tokai did not manufacture anything for Fender in the 1980s, although I believe they were one of the companies Fender considered using for the Fender Japan & Squier range. But Tokai have made many of the Fender Japan guitars in recent years (since around 2000, I think). So is Tokai as good as Fender? Well Fender seem to think so!

:p

Enjoy your Tokai.

Mike
 
Another classy thing about Tokai: most of the other Japanese companies gave the impression that they were ashamed of being Japanese. They made up random Westernized brand names that had no meaning, no significance to the history of the company, not a founder's name or factory location or anything that sounded even faintly Japanese. Burny? Is that supposed to make people think it's a Scottish guitar company? Greco, Ibanez, and Hondo make people think of Spain, Aria evokes Italy, Edwards and Navigator don't evoke much of anything other than "we don't want you to think of us as Japanese".

I don't know what "Tokai" means or how they chose it. But there's no mistaking it for a North American or European company. The average American may not be able to tell if it's a Japanese name or a Korean name or a Chinese name, but it's clearly "Asian". They weren't embarrassed by who they were -- they were proud of it.

And they were so artful in the way they designed their logos. On LP replicas, Greco and Burny tried to squeeze and distort their logos to look like Gibson's '50s logo, and the results look forced and unconvincing. But Tokai drew inspiration from Gibson's script logo of the '20s and '30s -- the result was elegant and looked like it belonged on the open-book headstock. On the other hand, they did the best pseudo-Fender logo ever -- the "7okai" logo is witty and clever, simply brilliant. It fills the shape of the head so well you could believe the head was shaped around the logo. Again, like it belonged there. Even the later logo was a better fit than any other company's (other than Fender, of course).

One further random thought about the '84 Tokai in the opening post. Stevie Ray Vaughan was a Tokai endorser and appeared on the cover of their '85/'86 catalog. The painting on the cover of his "Texas Flood" album was based on a pic of him posing with one of his Tokais. Here's a nice mid-'80s Tokai ad featuring Stevie:
http://hermes.gagar.fi/WebRoot/Gagar/Shops/CustomSounds/Images/TokaiSRVGPjul85w.jpg

OK, he moved on to vintage Fenders when he had the opportunity. Who wouldn't? But when he couldn't play pre-CBS, he played a lot of Tokais. That's pretty good credentials for your guitar, even if it wasn't made in California. An SRV-era Tokai is nothing to be embarrassed about.

edited to add: no offense intended towards Greco, Burny, etc. They were/are fine guitars, and lots of people seem to be of the opinion that many were better guitars than many Tokais. That just makes it sadder to me that they felt they had to make up Western names to compensate for not being made in America.
 
bobwise said:
And they were so artful in the way they designed their logos. ......... On the other hand, they did the best pseudo-Fender logo ever -- the "7okai" logo is witty and clever, simply brilliant. It fills the shape of the head so well you could believe the head was shaped around the logo. Again, like it belonged there. Even the later logo was a better fit than any other company's (other than Fender, of course)

Ah, those logos! The early Springys decals were a very cheeky copy of the pre 1964 spaghetti decal - try telling them apart from 10 steps back:

133_3362.jpg


The later logos used on Goldstars were quite similar to Fender's 1964 to 1967 transition logo, but this doesn't seem as widely known.

133_3383.jpg


In contrast, the ESP 400 Series vintage Strat copies were great guitars - as good as Goldstars - but just look at that monstrosity they slapped on the headstock!

112_1264.jpg
 
True Tom. It came with a single ply 8 hole sp though.

You should see it now! Well actually, you did at the Leeds do.....

:wink:
 
I have always been embarrased about the fact that it is not a genuine California

Thats funny i am embarrassed to have owned some crap American guitars, especially paying way more for the crap compared to what i now have from Japan. I would be more inclined to think yourself lucky you found out you have a great guitar before you sold it..

Mick
 
I'm new to this site, and I have to say how impressed I am with the depth of knowledge and the passion which Tokai owners have about their instruments, and how literate you all are. No offence to the Telecaster forum, but you're in a totally different class! Thanks to all who have replied to my posting - I now feel proud to be a Tokai man! After loosening the strings without completely removing the scratchplate I can see a "V" stamped on each of my pickups. Since buying this guitar brand new in 1984 I have had the original frets replaced by larger gauge Gibson type by Chandlers in Richmond. This was done on the advice of the then guitarist with Joe Brown and his Bruvvers (Roger), who played a 1950s Esquire which he had modified in the same way. Compared to my far eastern built Fenders the neck on my Tokai feels really heavy and slow. The only other change I have made is to scratch off the original Tokai headstock logo transfers and replaced them with Fender spaghetti logos. Sacrilege I know, and maybe illegal, but since I will never, ever, sell this or any of my 7 guitars, does this really matter? ( I can remember as a 15 year old in 1963 scratching the logo off my Watkins Rapier 22 and writing "Fender" on it in black ball point)! It seemed to play so much better afterwards! A final note on my Indonesian (I think) Telecaster, I recently had the original pickups replaced by Duncan Seymours - I can't describe the difference. Truly awesome is I think the current vernacular.
 
Excellent posts, Bob.

bobwise said:
I don't know what "Tokai" means or how they chose it.

"East sea". Hamamatsu city (Tokai's base of operations) is sat in the Tokai region of Chubu.
 
Fernandes was planning putting their name in Gibson style copies at early 70?s but it was too long for putting at headstock so they choose Burny instead,a shorter name.But in order to increase sales and because their sucessfull sales with their Fender copies they put alonside with Burny.That?s the reason why you can see another name besides Burny....They put Fernandes name for export however....Will put a pic if I find it to explain better

I get the point Tokai was so sure their products were so good that they did put their name on all the replicas they made.As pointed in the great post below,they did a really good quality.
 
Another thing that didn?t do any good to the sound of many Fender Stratocasters is the routing of the pickup cavity. On many of them the whole area around the pickups was routed out to easily allow for any configuration of pickups at any location, be it sngle coils or humbuckers. This has often been adressed as the "swimming pool" pickup rout. Actually so much wood is taken away that it ruins the tone since there is virtually no wood left at the centre body part of the guitar. Seems like a stupid thing to do in my opinion. Tokai?s are however carefully routed around the pickups which not only produces better tone but also better structural integrity of the guitar.
 
Yes, I think the US Standard Strats had the swimming pool rout, but maybe not all the time, I think they might have changed at some point. But you're right, it's an unnecessary compromise.
 
leadguitar_323 said:
I have always been embarrased about the fact that it is not a genuine California

Thats funny i am embarrassed to have owned some crap American guitars, especially paying way more for the crap compared to what i now have from Japan. I would be more inclined to think yourself lucky you found out you have a great guitar before you sold it..

Mick
Say it loud, I`m Tokai and I`m proud!Gabe.p.s. Stelyn I`d pass on the Aria left handed or not.Have a look at the the new Peerless range though ,I`ve been very impressed by the look of them ,although I`ve not played one yet.Gabe.
 
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