Tuners for Greco se380

[Georgerarnold]

Hi,

I’m completely over the moon with my recently acquired se380.
I expected to want to change the pickups but actually I love them.

Anyway, the only thing I think that is letting it down is that it doesn’t hold the tuning so well. it’s not too bad but noticeable that I have to retune more than with other guitars.
My tech did his best with the tuners but I think I should look for replacements.

Are there any good-quality drop-in replacements that look the same as these 6 sided ones? I know they aren’t historically correct but I really like the look of them.



Any advice is very welcome.

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

Without getting the calipers out and measuring the exact dimensions of the original tuners it's hard to find a "drop-in" replacement for those (there are none usually, even if someone had found some by coincidence years ago the sources are usually gone by now). Chances are they are metric, so what e.g. StewMac offers here may or may not work. The main source for similar looking parts is probably eBay.

However, worm drives are inherently mechanically stable, it's almost impossible that the cog can move the worm screw unless the tuner is damaged or maybe extremely worn, so maybe the tuning issues come from something else? Single strings could just be slipping on the post or getting jammed in the nut slots and if the whole guitar drops or raises the tuning a tiny bit it's rather the wood doing something - mind you, if you received a new (or new old) guitar it can take several (!) weeks until the wood has climatized itself (IOW reached a new moisture equilibrium).

 

[Georgerarnold]

Without getting the calipers out and measuring the exact dimensions of the original tuners it's hard to find a "drop-in" replacement for those (there are none usually, even if someone had found some by coincidence years ago the sources are usually gone by now). Chances are they are metric, so what e.g. StewMac offers here may or may not work. The main source for similar looking parts is probably eBay.

However, worm drives are inherently mechanically stable, it's almost impossible that the cog can move the worm screw unless the tuner is damaged or maybe extremely worn, so maybe the tuning issues come from something else? Single strings could just be slipping on the post or getting jammed in the nut slots and if the whole guitar drops or raises the tuning a tiny bit it's rather the wood doing something - mind you, if you received a new (or new old) guitar it can take several (!) weeks until the wood has climatized itself (IOW reached a new moisture equilibrium).

Thanks for the answer. Interesting.
Yes of course I'd rather keep the originals if possible and what you say about them being mechanically stable is something I've always wondered about. How exactly do tuners cause tuning problems? Like you say it's hard to imagine them slipping. So why do people so commonly upgrade tuners? And what are locking tuners and are they noticeably more stable?

The guitar is new to me and like I say the tuning problem is minimal and could potentially be caused by the strings (they are a different brand to the ones I usually use), so I'll wait to gain more knowledge about the problem before I take action.

Especially as it seems there aren't any common replacements.

I love this guitar!

Thanks

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

How exactly do tuners cause tuning problems?

They can run dry, maybe someone even washed the grease out with oil, dry bearings can be corroded so they become heavy to turn, the peg axles can become loose and in short they can be in need of TLC and are not fun to use anymore. But there's more than that needed for actual slippage I think.

So why do people so commonly upgrade tuners

Of course preferences are a legit reason to upgrade tuners - I like 1:18 tuners better than 1:14 gear, OTOH I'm a big fan of the good old slotted posts hiding the string ends and if I were using the whammy bar on my Strats I'd probably like locking tuners, maybe I like the looks better and maybe the guitar could be more balanced with lighter or heavier tuners. But beyond that I have a strong feeling that...

- they are upgraded because they can be upgraded (personalizing/pimp my ride)
- there is a weird old misconception/prejudice/reflex carried on since the 1960s to upgrade hardware because it's from Japan or even worse, not even from Japan.

Cheaper guitars are more often in the hands of newbies/inexperienced players who didn't learn the right restringing and tuning strategies (stretching and tuning from below the target tone...) yet, since it was cheap and/or not made in a "trusted" country the tuners are often blamed first.

And what are locking tuners and are they noticeably more stable?

Locking tuners don't need the string wrapped around the post multiple times, which helps with stability when you use the whammy bar heavily, and after stringing up you maybe need a little less stretching and retuning for the same reason. Some of them can even clip your strings to length and are quite a gadget. On the downside they add complexity and therefore failure modes that don't exist with old-fashioned tuners and a locking tuner not locking the string anymore 5 minutes before a gig isn't fun.

 

[Georgerarnold]

They can run dry, maybe someone even washed the grease out with oil, dry bearings can be corroded so they become heavy to turn, the peg axles can become loose and in short they can be in need of TLC and are not fun to use anymore. But there's more than that needed for actual slippage I think.



Of course preferences are a legit reason to upgrade tuners - I like 1:18 tuners better than 1:14 gear, OTOH I'm a big fan of the good old slotted posts hiding the string ends and if I were using the whammy bar on my Strats I'd probably like locking tuners, maybe I like the looks better and maybe the guitar could be more balanced with lighter or heavier tuners. But beyond that I have a strong feeling that...

- they are upgraded because they can be upgraded (personalizing/pimp my ride)
- there is a weird old misconception/prejudice/reflex carried on since the 1960s to upgrade hardware because it's from Japan or even worse, not even from Japan.

Cheaper guitars are more often in the hands of newbies/inexperienced players who didn't learn the right restringing and tuning strategies (stretching and tuning from below the target tone...) yet, since it was cheap and/or not made in a "trusted" country the tuners are often blamed first.



Locking tuners don't need the string wrapped around the post multiple times, which helps with stability when you use the whammy bar heavily, and after stringing up you maybe need a little less stretching and retuning for the same reason. Some of them can even clip your strings to length and are quite a gadget. On the downside they add complexity and therefore failure modes that don't exist with old-fashioned tuners and a locking tuner not locking the string anymore 5 minutes before a gig isn't fun.

Thanks for your reply.