Mystery Korean ALS

[simonmcroft]

At this point, I'd like to sound a note of caution. I'm happy to help to expand the pool of knowledge about Tokai instruments with serial numbers or specific features that don't seem to 'fit'. What I don't want this to turn into is some kind of witch hunt against Tokais we simply don't know enough about.

As a reference point, I used to own a Korean LP-style Tokai with a blank where the serial number should have been. It wasn't a fake: it was the pre-production unit Tokai took to the NAMM dealers' convention to create all the forward orders for the whole production line that followed. Although I no longer have the guitar or the documentation, I had a full paper trail, and it was totally genuine. Without that provenance, it would have been natural to wonder if the instrument was even a real Tokai. (Actually, it was a brilliant guitar and I was a mug to sell it, handsome profit or not.)

While I've had my doubts about the provenance of my Tokai Jazz Sound, the serial number appears to stack up, so I'm not going to rush to say it's a wrong 'un. It plays really well, looks very well made, and it stands up tonally to my two Fender Jazz Basses. (One has CS pickups and the other was made in the US in 1989. Both great instruments.)

The only reason I've changed the bridge, and am about to upgrade the electrics, is I know that's all it will take to turn this Tokai into a bass that is as useful as the other two.

 

[Sigmania]

No Korean LS models that I know of had serial numbers.

The only exception I know of had the letter prefix serial numbers, modified headstocks, are called NLS by Active Music who later lost their distributorship for committing fraud, and are likely counterfeit or "bootlegs" as you call them.

Here are a bunch of legit Korean LS models. Note that none have serial numbers.

Love Rocks Made In Korea 1995-1997

Love Rocks Made In Korea 1998-2000

Love Rocks Made In Korea 2000-2005

 

[Sigmania]

And the Chinese guitars are fine. They were never expensive guitars, but offer a lot of bang for not much money.

With Korean and Chinese guitars you get less expensive woods, pickups, pots, switches, finish, hardware, etc. Most people switch out the pickups and electronics eventually.

And Korean and Chinese guitars typically sold for less than 60,000 yen. That’s $400 at the current exchange rate.

 

[simonmcroft]

No Korean LS models that I know of had serial numbers.

The only exception I know of had the letter prefix serial numbers, modified headstocks, are called NLS by Active Music who later lost their distributorship for committing fraud, and are likely counterfeit or "bootlegs" as you call them.

Here are a bunch of legit Korean LS models. Note that none have serial numbers.

Love Rocks Made In Korea 1995-1997

Love Rocks Made In Korea 1998-2000

Love Rocks Made In Korea 2000-2005

Thank you for this. It all gets complicated, doesn't it? I've been searching around to see if I have any pictures, or copies of the documentation relating to the Korean Tokai LP-type I had. The trouble is, this was about 25 years and three house moves ago. So far, I've got nothing. Fortunately, I have a pretty good memory (even at the age of 67), so I can fill in some of the gaps.

The back of the head on the guitar I was sold as a 'prototype' on eBay (a pretty stupid description for a guitar that was a good replica of a design that had been in production since the 1950s) had a decal where a serial number was supposed to go, but there was no number in the space on the graphic. That makes it different to any of the ones you've provided links to.

I bought it from a guy based in London, and he'd bought it from a dealer in Canada. It came with the original receipt from the dealer, which clearly stated that this was the pre-production unit shown to North American dealers at the NAMM show. He told me he'd bought other pre-production guitars, including an Explorer-type, I think. The impression I gained was that these were also from the Canadian dealer.

Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of the dealer. What I do remember was the guitar had a book-matched top with really outrageously large flame! Maybe it was what is most commonly known as 'photo flame', but it seemed quite lively under the light.

The guitar in my avatar pic is Tokai Japan, and I must say the quality of the Korean guitar was on a par, with the exception of the pickups. It's not that they sounded bad, but the neck pickup was a lot hotter than the bridge, which seemed a little odd.

I eventually sold the instrument to a UK recording studio, who were delighted with it. It may be that what we'd all bought was 2/3 great guitar and 1/3 complete work of fiction. Maybe we'll never know. I doubt if I sold the guitar for more than £300, and that was at a profit, so it was a lot of trouble to go to if the whole thing was based on a fake and a lie.

 

[Sigmania]

Oh geez.... you just said the magic word.... Canada.

In case you are not aware, they was a HUGE issue in Canada. And not in a good way.

You might want to browse through these threads:

Mikes Music in Canada !!!

Questionable Practices

Active Music 2002 Tokai Models Canada

Manufactured Under License For... Fakais

 

[Sigmania]

I moved this part of our discussion here so as to not confuse folks talking about a Korean LS model in that other thread.

Odd (Non CN) No Prefix Serial Numbers, Chinese? 2015, 2016

This allows others to find it and chime in as well if they have insights.

Do you happen to have any pictures at all of the LS we are discussing that was sold to you as a prototype.

 

[Sigmania]

I guess I should also ask why you thought your guitar was Korean?

I ask because I had a 1900s LS55GT that for all the world seemed to be a MIJ guitar but it had no serial number. I always suspected some sort of hybrid Korean/Japanese production but have no way to prove that.

 

[Sigmania]

And there were fotoflame type tops on some Korean Love Rocks

Gravure print. Foto flame in other words.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265871953...b_vTl8uRJe&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[Sigmania]

1998 catalog.

These are Korean guitars.

 

[Sigmania]

Or it may have just been a veneer if it moved under light as you say. The Koreans made some nice veneer top guitars.

This is veneer.

Tokai レスポールタイプLoveRock - ヤフオク!



so is this.

Tokai Love Rock MODEL ボルトオンネック Les P... - Yahoo!オークション

 

[Sigmania]

The back of the head on the guitar I was sold as a 'prototype' on eBay …. had a decal where a serial number was supposed to go, but there was no number in the space on the graphic. That makes it different to any of the ones you've provided links to.

I bought it from a guy based in London, and he'd bought it from a dealer in Canada. It came with the original receipt from the dealer, which clearly stated that this was the pre-production unit shown to North American dealers at the NAMM show. He told me he'd bought other pre-production guitars, including an Explorer-type, I think. The impression I gained was that these were also from the Canadian dealer.

Did it have a sticker like this?

 

[Sigmania]

Does the name "Active Music" or "Mike’s Music" ring a bell?

Active Music was the Canadian distributor.

 

[Sigmania]

from japan...

WE STOPPED DEALING WITH ACTIVE MUSICAL PRODUCTS LTD BECAUSE THEY MADE TOKAI GUITARS IN KOREA WITHOUT OUR PERMISSION.

Six digit SN on Love Rock

 

[simonmcroft]

Well, I'm glad this all happened to me about 1/4 Century ago, because it clearly gets very messy indeed! The guitar I bought had a fixed neck, mahogany neck and back, with a flamed top that may well have been veneer. From memory, the decal on the back of the head was certainly similar to the design you show, but I'm about 90% certain it was under the lacquer, rather than a sticker on the surface.

Now you ask, "Mike's Music" does ring a bell. I'm about 75% certain that was where the original attribution and sale documentation was from. My 25% doubt is because I've read through some of the threads you gave me links to, so Mike's Music is now firmly embedded in my mind. The name Active Music isn't one I associate with this specific guitar. There is some faint recognition, but that may be because I worked in the MI and pro audio industries from about 1972 to 1984, so it may be they were a distributor for a brand I worked with.

EDIT: There is no chance the guitar I owned said "make" in Korea! My wife and I would have been taking pictures and telling friends about that little howler.

 

[Sigmania]

You would be surprised how many people don't notice that is says "MAKE". But once you see it you can't ever not see it again.

And there are no other Tokais I have ever seen that have a sticker on the back of the headstock with any space for a serial number.

The guitars in question (FAKAIS) are notorious among guitar collectors. Especially MIJ collectors. Some people like them and swear they are better than normal run Korean Tokais, but the issue is obviously the distributor going rogue and making a buck off of the Toaki name. Ugly chapter in Tokai history, and Tokai left Korea around that time. Not sure if it was related, but I doubt that it helped.