Just won Tokai Springy sound 1981 ST- 60/80 for $521, WHAT?

[Innos]

I'm sending an email to the seller, with a couple of questions concerning pickguard, filled tuner holes etc.

Either:
He proves me wrong; great.

He can shed some light on this, and maybe it's a good guitar for the price; fine, I'll take it.

He does some research, and it turns out all my worst fears were indeed true; no thanks.

He intentionally tried to trick me/everyone else into buying a "fake" guitar, and get's offensive; bye bye 100% feedback for both of us.

If it's just a Tokai frankenstein, I'll take it.
But, from the tuner holes, it looks like the original tuners were of the "Grover style" kind, and that means it's probably not a Tokai neck?

If so, then I'll probably tell him I don't want it.
I would be ok with just a Goldstar, because I would never get a Springy Sound for the normal 700 dollar plus price, so a Goldstar is the alternative anyways.

 

[AlanN]

Well, sellers can't leave negative feedback for a buyer any more, so don't worry about that!

 

[Innos]

Okay, but he can report me to eBay for not paying, and have my account suspended, right?
I'm afraid eBay will agree with him, considering you have to really know these guitars etc. to see what the problem is.

He just replied to my email, but had no comment on either the pickguard or filled holes/unoriginal tuners.
He said "discussion is not what I want to do with you", and that he still thinks it's an all original '81 Tokai Springy Sound.

This is kind of suspicious. If he just said something like:
"Oh, I didn't notice that, sorry!
I guess if you want, I can just relist it, or do you still want the guitar?

It would be okay, or if this was just a matter of model etc., but those are kinda obvious.

 

[mrsuspend]

I think the seller is Japanese so you have to account for a language barrier.
I actually bought a guitar from the same man just now, it's still in transit so I know nothing about its IRL condition. AFAIK there's not a great market for fake Silver Stars though...

 

[mrsuspend]

If it's just a Tokai frankenstein, I'll take it.
But, from the tuner holes, it looks like the original tuners were of the "Grover style" kind, and that means it's probably not a Tokai neck?

As it has the end of neck stamps I should think it's a Tokai neck.


/M

 

[Innos]

Considering he has over 100 sales, and 100% feedback, I don't think there's anything wrong with the seller in general.
That's partly why I bid before asking questions etc.
Out of the 200 eBay items I've asked about, I've bought 10, so this is not like me at all. =p

 

[Innos]

So it might just be that someone has changed the tuners, and then changed back before selling, or similar?

Any suggestions on what I might ask seller to check etc, so that I can find out more on the guitar?
Right now there seems to be alot of possibilities as to what this actually is.

 

[mrsuspend]

It's not really possible IMHO to say much more unless you can look at it in real life.
My advice would be to take a chance and buy it. After all, you're meant to ask all this beforehand! :wink: It's probably worth the money anyway and if not you'll just have to chalk one up to experience...

/Magnus

 

[Innos]

Well, the seller CAN look at it in real life, that's the point. =p

 

[mrsuspend]

Well, the seller CAN look at it in real life, that's the point. =p

True, but if he doesn't want to....

 

[Innos]

I can ask, can't I? =p
And if he says doesn't want to take the approriate steps to help verify this, then I still accomplished something, because it shows he maybe shouldn't be trusted after all...

 

[AlanN]

Or that he's busy/it's already packed for shipment/he's away working and his wife is posting it/he just doesn't know/his English isn't up to what you're asking/a myriad of other plausible excuses. In my experience it's usually "he's fed up of answering questions from that pedantic swine from on the Tokai forum, and I refuse to take the guitar apart again to photograph wood"

Sorry, I know I'm playing devil's advocate, but I think you're jumping too quickly to the worst conclusion. If there's one thing I've learned since joining here, it's that even the experts are constantly surprised at what constitutes an "official" Tokai; they've mashed up necks, bodies and pickups in the factory before it seems, so there's no reason to panic over this one. I'd wait until it arrived - a frankenstrat it may be, but I can almost guarantee* that you'll still be happy with it for the price.

*No refunds.

 

[MIJvintage]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110276401361
Just won this thing, for the price you see.
Did I get one heck of a deal, or is there something I'm not seeing?
Would really appreciate a quick response, as he'll probably want his money asap.
Although I do realize most of you probably aren't browsing forums at the moment, because of the time difference etc.

I'm not saying I'm NOT going to pay, but if it's fake, or not what he said it was in the description, he can't call me on it, right?

Here is a very good idea for potential eBay buyers to keep in mind, and it is also just a small part of my eBay listing policy.
"Please ask any questions you may have, before bidding; not after the listing ends"

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry Innos, but I agree with MIJ. It is your responsibility to know what you're looking for and ask all your questions before bidding. If you don't, you only have yourself to blame. Maybe the seller doesn't know all the little details that we have been through in this very long thread - and he has to communicate with you in a foreign language too, which makes it all much harder for him.

It seems that all the various bits are genuine Tokai, from what we have seen - for example, I would be surprised if it wasn't a genuine Springy neck. The body also looks like genuine Tokai, though possibly from a different guitar. Same with the scratchplate - it's Tokai, complete with that cool little brass plate under the controls. And the Us are the best of all the Tokai Strat pickups, IMHO.

Personally, I wouldn't have bid for it, but you did, and you got it for a low price. It may well turn out to be a great guitar. Or it might even turn out to be a dog - that's the risk you take when you buy a 30 year old guitar cheap on eBay. Caveat emptor.......

 

[Rich_F]

If you have doubts now, you will probably never be happy with it, JMO. Just from looking at the photos, I see, or at least I think I see a nut changed to brass, finish missing on 1st fret, nice size chip and scratch around 12th fret, frets seem to high to be original, extra holes drilled on back plate, non original 3 ply pick guard (missing "a" or "b" stamp), changed volume knob, non original trem block (missing "made in japan" stamp), springy sound sticker looks too good for the rest of the guitar to be original, some black touch up paint on body, and the seller said the serial number starts with a 1, however it looks to be a lower case L. These are just my personal observations. Good luck to you, whatever you decide.

 

[mrsuspend]

The trem block is original Tokai. It's only the pot metal ones that have "made in japan" stamped on them. This one is steel and actually better.

/Magnus

 

[Innos]

I think I'll take a chance and buy it. After all, I did bid on it (and won), and I have to take responsibility for that.

Best case scenario; it's a great Springy Sound ST-50 that had some parts replaced and modifications done, some that were changed back, some not.

Worst case scenario; it's a crappy guitar, built from at least some original Tokai parts.

Either way, it does include a case, it's not alot of money anyhow, and, if I don't like it, I can still sell it to someone here in Norway with little or no loss.
This guitar will have cost me about 3500 NOK when I get it. That's the price of a used MIM Fender strat here in Norway, let alone a Tokai Springy Sound.

 

[JohnA]

Fingers crossed! Lests hope it's a nice one!! Be sure to let us all know when it arrives.

 

[Anonymous]

If it's not better than a Mexican Strat, I will be very surprised. A typical Goldstar ST50 is significantly better than a Mexican Strat.

 

[Innos]

Well, I got the guitar a little over one week ago, and to be honest, I liked the guitar.
There are some problems, the high e-string tuner is not working properly, and the volum pot has to be replaced.
It's stuck somewhere between 3 and 8 on the knob, and won't go all the way up, or all the way down.
Also, the serial did not match that in the description.

These are minor issues, but it said "No issue with the electronics.", and "(Serial # 102205).", so these are actually lies.
As it seemed he's not been entirely honest through this whole thing, I felt I had to do something.
I decided I'd just leave NEUTRAL feedback for him, and sent him an email about it (as it's eBay policy to contact seller first)

I got this reply:
"Please do as you like.
I have no right to stop you from doing so.

But i will have a right to do the same thing too.
I can change your feedback score to neutral or negative if I feel .

What you have bought is a vintage and used guitar.
I believe what I have supplied were enough informations.

I have supplied enough photos to leave your judgment.
Pot is enough for the working order (that is the extent that even the guitar stores in anywhere will sell it as usual. This is used and vintage guitar.)

My best proposal is that you don't leave me a feedback.
And I will keep yours still."
(if you feel I sholdn't've shown you the email, just edit it out)

Is he threatening me, and isn't it so that seller CAN'T leave negative feedback?