I NEED SOME HELP FOR IDENTIFYING AN ELECTRIC GUITAR!!!

[luis]

I?ve said all I felt,just that,no offense at all in my book.

There is an old spanish say telling "no ofende quien quiere sino quien puede" y no me siento ofendido por este se?or.

Mis guitarras no son o nunca han sido grandes guitarras....de nombre.Tal vez no las conozcas pero una Navigator NST-300 o una Heritage Eagle archtop no tienen nombre pero s? una calidad realmente buena,muy muy buena,son guitarras profesionales que te dejan satisfecho,a m? y a cualquiera que las prueba o se las lleva para tocar(la Heritage en concreto).He probado toda la gama de Tokai desde una simple LS-70 hasta las m?ticas LS-320 que no se consiguen por ning?n lado.
Solo hay una cosa que no me gusta y es los siguiente: ese marketing de convertir lo de una calidad aceptable o a veces ni eso, en algo ?nico,magn?fico,estupendo,fant?stico,lo mejor del mundo,etc,etc,etc....
No comulgo con ruedas de molino y no me gusta que se haga comulgar a los dem?s.Intento compartir mi experiecia y lo siento pero no me voy a cortar un pelo en decir lo que pienso,y fijate que lo hago aqu? en un foro internacional,podr?a ser en alguno de los foros espa?oles d?nde seg?n creo tambi?n han cuestionado esa forma tan "peculiar " de promocionar tus ventas.Las guitarras chinas no son buenas guitarras,lo siento mucho,de momento no lo son y .....aqu? viene lo mejor,una replica de esas fant?sticas de una Les Paul made in China de la mejor calidad cuesta una vez puesta en Espa?a....60 EUROS!!!!!----lo s? de MUY buena fuente....A partir de aqu? t? mismo....360 - 60 = 300 DE M?RGEN DE BENEFICIO si hay quien pica...La tuya es la t?pica actitud espa?ola de la picaresca por la que JAMAS me voy a sentir representado.En mi opini?n habr?a que desterrar esa forma de funcionar y aprender del resto de pa?ses de la Union Europea,por eso est?n d?nde est?n en t?rminos econ?micos....

Por otro lado como t? eres un vendedor y vienes aqu? a pedir informaci?n sobre una guitarra en concreto y adem?s publicitas e incitas a entrar en tu web, deber?as de estar a las duras y a las maduras y si te critican pues es lo que hay....

Finalmente s? hay una cosa que me jode y mucho....QUE EL PUBLICO SE LLEVA UNA IMPRESION ERR?NEA DE LAS TOKAI :x eso me jode mucho.?Y por qu? el p?blico pude tomar a las Tokai como que son una mierda y joder el trabajo que desinteresadamente he llevado a cabo durante m?s de cinco a?os...?Por varias razones entre ellas:

Los fakes :evil: : guitarras japonesas bolt-on con logo faked Tokai haciendose pasar como Tokais, guitarras koreanas haci?ndose pasar por japonesas o lo peor d elos peor los fakes chinos cuya calidad no le llega a la suela de los zapatos a las Tokai japonesas.....

Finally I?d take any korean Love Rock over any of yours chinese guitars,they comand near the same price used and I feel them better quality(just my opinion)..... 8)

In sumary: too much advertised to achieve a recognition that if the guitars were good enough was not necesary at all! A quality guitar sepeak just for itself,you just have to let it to the player and see his/her face...very simple!.Just see why Tokai have got such a high reputation over the world : QUALITY before QUANTITY".....

PS: Sorry guys for the rant.Case closed for myself.I will go on with informative posts.......

Gottfried,you know spanish people are very pasionated

 

[mestre]

Yeah, maybe I got "a bit" angry with someone?s rusty point of view... but I swear the half of my tears come strictly from laughing out loud!


by the way: some "no-doubt-points" nobody uses to negate... (unless he?s a balls toucher!)


-ANY guitar (more exactly, EVERYTHING) gets benefits & upgrading putting some effort on it. As true as it rains downwards!!! I?ve never thought in past years that an electric guitar is so EASY to upgrade. If people don?t do it by himself it is due to some factors (few knowledge on it, few confidence on himself, not enough scientific spirit,,,)

-If we mean that something is a complete piece of crap (too much subjective factors to judge, so each person will have an own opinion about this), it will always be wiser a complete piece of crap "upgraded" than "as it is". If we extend this consideration to the major part of modern guitars, it is still the same thing!

-I?m truely happy about Tokai LR?s fame and growing crowd of fans... as an owner and as someone who wants good things to be recognised. But hey dudes, that fame is a two-cutting edges blade! If nobody knew what the hell means "Tokai" word, there wouldn?t be some people paying fortunes for them... I see some truely abusive prices round the web and wonder about it. It isn?t a new tale at all: when something is mass-demanded and becomes mass-produced we?re really fucked... Just take a look on Dr Martens boots, some decades ago they were therapy boots, indicated for orthopaedical diseases or problems. But nowadays they?re so badly done that you can really burst your feet if you usually wear them (that?s my case, I?m 32 years old and my poor feet look like if I was 50, due to my interest on this ******** boots when I was a teenager!!!). I don?t mean Tokai guitars have become so bad than those boots... but my 91? Love Rock shows a six-pieces body and that?s a pity/shame when you find it on a 700 $ (or more) axe... although it is the best-sounding and looking LP guitar I?ve ever had or played. I saw last month a new Tokai LR on a local shop and I was horrified, it looked like a half-priced average copy and its price was much, much more than I paid for it. So boys, don?t let your love to Tokai guitars fool you... I believe they follow the same path than Gibson, Fender, etc... and it means we?re fucked, too! It is simply a constant in our nowadays world: everything gets worse!!!


As somebody wrote... enough said!




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[luis]

Upgrading a just fair guitar goes nothing,it?s better to spend more money on a better guitar,I tell this from experience and it?s MY opinion someone could agree or disagree....
Again case closed in my book and let?s talk about Tokais if you don?t mind that was the question if I recall well.

Do you think how a Tokai can be upgraded in any way?

 

[Anonymous]

Boy! There must be more words in this one exchange of views than on the rest of the forum. Surely this could have all been said by using fewer words, but better chosen words? :roll:

Mike

 

[luis]

You?re right stratman we talked way too much,such a guys we?re :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Actually I feel guilty for saying that now. I believe that English is not the 1st language for either of you, so you both deserve some credit for being able to argue (at length!) in a foreign language.

Mike

 

[mestre]

I?d like to say you?re right in one thing: it is better to modify a good axe than an average one (but it isn?t so hard to see, so I?m affraid nobody will propose you for a Nobel prize for it! )

But you?re completely wrong when you say that an average copy isn?t worth to upgrade a bit (or a lot!)... you know you?re bullshitting, man! EVERY axe gets better with some improvements, this is what I?ve realized since I began on guitar modification projects, and got the same results on every case. do you mean that if you put a real String-Thru-Body EVEN in the crappest piece of wood, doesn?t get a richer, fatter sound??? do you mean that if you put a volume control and a tone control for each pickup on a strat-type guitar you won?t get more tonal options from it??? do you mean that if you put some better tuners it won?t stay in tune much better??? do you mean...?!? too many dogmas, man!!!

I find there is no discussion on it, so let?s go to another thing I?m affraid you forgot:

It is surely better to start with a 400 - 600 $ guitar than taking a cheaper one, but if you start with expensive axes you?ll get astronomical final prices, too. I WANTED TO CREATE SOME CUSTOM AXES AVAILABLE TO EVERYBODY!!! I DIDN?T WANT TO CREATE MORE EXPENSIVE ITEMS BECAUSE OUR WORLD IS PLENTY OF THEM... That?s why I started with average guitars, but don?t doubt it: if I could do the same with more expensive guitars I would do it so (once again, I mean it was an economy matter). But even in the case I could start with some more expensive guitars I would keep on doing the same with 200 - 400 $ axes, too. I wanted to cover a blank range of products which I discovered while taking a look on actual market, so going through expensive guitars as a start point wouldn?t help too much.

But what really amazes me is when you say clearly I want to cheat some poor uneducated guitarist/buyer...

-If someone buys my custom strat, for example, he?ll get just what he pays for. I?ve got no dubts about it. If there was something like that on conventional music stores, its price would surely be much higher.

-Where can you find copies like these for 60 ??!? I can swear I?ve payed much more for the axes I started with, although I made an effort to get them for a low price (catalog prices were higher than the price I finally paid for them). If you buy a brand new axe for 60 ? it will be a piece of crap, surely, but if you take a 240 ? brand new axe for it, you need to wear glasses!!!

Here is my guitars list, and I?m not affraid of talking about its original brand name and price... I?ll start saying that XC is my own brand name (as simple as putting a hand-made plastic cap on the headstock with what the hell you want to put engraved there). I thought that putting my own brand on every axe I modify (except in case of well-known brands like Ibanez or Maison) was a cool idea to keep them identified during all its useable lifetime... and this should be as long as on any expensive axe, as they?re upgraded to last.

-XC Wolfcaster: I started with a Behringer Strat copy. 120 ? brand new, although I?ve seen some people selling them for 180 - 200 ?. Put Kluson tuners (25 ? if you know where to get it at low cost), some decent hard-tail bridge (about 15 ?), an extra single pickup, plastic materials for custom looking purposes, graphite nut, some better string trees, more screws to attach properly all the new pickguards... and take your time to route a new poach for placing pickup selection toggle away from your hands while playing, making a real String-Thru-Body, simulating a "relic" condition, etc. Lots of time put on I+D and real tech work. I sell it for 270 ?, and I insist: it is a UNIQUE piece although you think it is not an expensive one! so... where?s the steal??? In worst of the cases, I?m drifting myself!!!

-Ibanez Roadster... don?t find necessary talking too much about it. 450 ? for a seventies Roadster in near mint condition (all parts original except plastic buttons and two roller string-trees) isn?t a steal at all. Although that I had to price it down to 360 ?, mainly due to people ignorance on vintage gear. I even put a metacrylate cover on truss rod adjustment poach, something which Ibanez techs didn?t considerate it as a "necessary" thing then :lol:

-XC Vampira: I started with a japanese no-named 70?s SG copy. I bought it on eBay for about 150 ?. It shows a nice one-piece mahogany neck with an original variation (strat-like headstock shape). It was a bit dismembered (it was sold as a "project" guitar) so I put a strat-type bridge provided with an antique cedar wood block to raise it a bit, a single coil where the original was missing (neck pickup), hand-made an original pickguard (even a "musical note" plastic cover for the headstock and "XC" inlay!), made a real String-Thru-Body, glued and screwed the neck at same time, etc. I swear it: selling this guitar for 330 ? wasn?t a great deal, too :roll:





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[mestre]

I?d like to say you?re right in one thing: it is better to modify a good axe than an average one (but it isn?t so hard to see, so I?m affraid nobody will propose you for a Nobel prize for it! )

But you?re completely wrong when you say that an average copy isn?t worth to upgrade a bit (or a lot!)... you know you?re bullshitting, man! EVERY axe gets better with some improvements, this is what I?ve realized since I began on guitar modification projects, and got the same results on every case. do you mean that if you put a real String-Thru-Body EVEN in the crappest piece of wood, doesn?t get a richer, fatter sound??? do you mean that if you put a volume control and a tone control for each pickup on a strat-type guitar you won?t get more tonal options from it??? do you mean that if you put some better tuners it won?t stay in tune much better??? do you mean...?!? too many dogmas, man!!!

I find there is no discussion on it, so let?s go to another thing I?m affraid you forgot:

It is surely better to start with a 400 - 600 $ guitar than taking a cheapest one, but if you start with expensive axes you?ll get astronomical final prices, too. I WANTED TO CREATE SOME CUSTOM AXES AVAILABLE TO EVERYBODY!!! I DIDN?T WANT TO CREATE MORE EXPENSIVE ITEMS BECAUSE OUR WORLD IS PLENTY OF THEM... That?s why I started with average guitars, but don?t doubt it: if I could do the same with more expensive guitars I would do it so (once again, I mean it was an economy matter). But even in the case I could start with some more expensive guitars I would keep on doing the same with 200 - 400 $ axes, too. I wanted to cover a blank range of products which I discovered while taking a look on actual market, so going through expensive guitars as a start point wouldn?t help too much.

But what really amazes me is when you say clearly I want to cheat some poor uneducated guitarist/buyer...

-If someone buys my custom strat, for example, he?ll get just what he pays for. I?ve got no dubts about it. If there was something like that on conventional music stores, its price would surely be much higher.

-Where can you find copies like these for 60 ??!? I can swear I?ve payed much more for the axes I started with, although I made an effort to get them for a low price (catalog prices were higher than the price I finally paid for them). If you buy a brand new axe for 60 ? it will be a piece of crap, surely, but if you take a 240 ? brand new axe for it, you need to wear glasses!!!

Here is my guitars list, and I?m not affraid of talking about its original brand name and price... I?ll start saying that XC is my own brand name (as simple as putting a hand-made plastic cap on the headstock with what the hell you want to put engraved there). I thought that putting my own brand on every axe I modify (except in case of well-known brands like Ibanez or Maison) was a cool idea to keep them identified during all its useable lifetime... and this should be as long as on any expensive axe, as they?re upgraded to last.

-XC Wolfcaster: I started with a Behringer Strat copy. 120 ? brand new, although I?ve seen some people selling them for 180 - 200 ?. Put Kluson tuners (25 ? if you know where to get it at low cost), some decent hard-tail bridge (about 15 ?), an extra single pickup, plastic materials for custom looking purposes, graphite nut, some better string trees, more screws to attach properly all the new pickguards... and take your time to route a new poach for placing pickup selection toggle away from your hands while playing, making a real String-Thru-Body, simulating a "relic" condition, etc. Lots of time put on I+D and real tech work. I sell it for 270 ?, and I insist: it is a UNIQUE piece although you think it is not an expensive one! so... where?s the steal??? In worst of the cases, I?m drifting myself!!!

-Ibanez Roadster... don?t find necessary talking too much about it. 450 ? for a seventies Roadster in near mint condition (all parts original except plastic buttons and two roller string-trees) isn?t a steal at all. Although that I had to price it down to 360 ?, mainly due to people ignorance on vintage gear. I even put a metacrylate cover on truss rod adjustment poach, something which Ibanez techs didn?t considerate it as a "necessary" thing then :lol:

-XC Vampira: I started with a japanese no-named 70?s SG copy. I bought it on eBay for about 150 ?. It shows a nice one-piece mahogany neck with an original variation (strat-like headstock shape). It was a bit dismembered (it was sold as a "project" guitar) so I put a strat-type bridge provided with an antique cedar wood block to raise it a bit, a single coil where the original was missing (neck pickup), hand-made an original pickguard (even a "musical note" plastic cover for the headstock and "XC" inlay!), made a real String-Thru-Body, glued and screwed the neck at same time, etc. I swear it: selling this guitar for 330 ? wasn?t a great deal, too :roll:





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[mestre]

-Danelectro U2: bought it on eBay in near mint, partialy modified condition for about 180 ?. Made custom pickguards, placed a decent strat-like bridge instead of the vomitive non-adjustable factory bridge, a real String-Thru-Body... I don?t find out that 360 ? are a steal for it... just take a look on what common guitarists use to pay for it in its crappy factory condition... even original strap buttons suck!!! I believe I made a straight rocking axe and a unique piece of art from it...

-XC Fat Paula: this is one of the most funny histories I can tell about my axes... I bought a Stellar hollow-body LP on american eBay for 360 ? (including all taxes and other bullshits). I thought it was worth for a brand new mahogany, hollow body LP copy which is quite well done... I made a mistake here, because a few months later I realized I could get the same axe from german eBay for about 2/3 of its price. SO I?M SELLING IT AT THE SAME PRICE I PAID FOR IT, after all the work and putting a pair of true vintage humbuckers and Kluson tuners (and making an optional vintage wooden pickguard to make it more complete in some way). Definitely I?m a thief with no heart, don?t you think so??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

SHOULD I FOLLOW, OR DID YOU HAVE ENOUGH??? I could keep on talking until tomorrow about this things or others like "nobody is a prophet in his homeland"...

(uh, I forgot to mention that I OFTEN do a careful liming/polishing fretwork on all my axes, customize every electronics, sometimes plastic buttons too, and put some decent strap buttons... usually the big ones made by Gotoh, which cost about 3 ? a pair if you knoy where to get it! Add to it every cosmetic and finishing work and you?ll find out that my axes gave me a lotta more work than you thought)

Make numbers, man... it is almost a ruin to me!!! It is clear to see you missed your shot, dear... If you calculate the total cost of every finished guitar, the time I spent making all that and even more, adjusting nut slots, intonation and all that things which luthiers use to do (badly) for about 50 ? or more, you?ll have to "eat your words" when you mean that I?m cheating people and getting 300 ? clean benefit... I hate "picaresque" more than you, that?s why I try to avoid it even when suffering the risk of completely ruinate my economy... (in fact that?s what happened yet!) You can?t ruin my work saying I?m a drifter when I?m stupidly working man enough to take the job of hand-peeling the finish on some neck insertion poach and neck basis to give it a better sound, and in some cases I glued and screwed the neck at same time to give it a bit more sustain, or carefully limed bridge saddles to prevent string breaking problems... I know well what the hell I?m doing, don?t doubt it! Which manufacturer do you know which takes all this efforts and cares???

In other words, if my guitars were produced in a past time, were well-known and sold at music stores, you would create a web or a forum just for licking my furry ***!!! :lol:

It is so obvious that I believe I?ve been a victim of other?s dogmatism, or simple hurting attempts to solve some internal conflicts badly taken. I know I?ve got lots of detractors by now, but as Salvador Dali said: "que hablen de mi, aunque sea mal".

I?m a honest craftsman, and although I can understand you?re angry with some drifters who hang around there, I believe you discharged your anger against the wrong person. "HAZTELO VER, CHAVALOTE!!!" If you get angry when somebody puts dirt on Tokai?s glory, you can picture what happens when you live the things I have to live each day, when it?s your own work and efforts which is put down with quite "mala leche" (rage)!!!



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[togps]

Don't feed the troll ...

 

[mestre]

well, as I?ve spitted enough poison by the moment :lol: , let?s answer your question...

how can you improve a Tokai guitar???


-if you find it sounds too dark even in bridge pickup position, try to put 1 Megaohm pots instead of the usual 500 K ones... I?m gonna do it right now and I?ll tell you later (although my bridge pup is an odd single coil from the seventies, a bit more clear sounding than humbuckers as it uses to happen with single coils). there is a lot of info available on this theme, so if you are a bit curious and never heard about it before, make you a favor and collect some useful info...

-if you still want a brighter and more metallic tone, why not trying a brass nut??? some people will say that?s not "true" or "correct" taking Gibson LP as "the real thing", but as I said some posts ago I like all that "DIY" philosophy and I believe that there is no reason for don?t doing ANY improvement/modification which you think it should be worth... I don?t believe in standards, I just believe there is a myriad choices to try!

-if there is some model which doesn?t wear a bone nut, it is almost a necessary thing to change plastic nuts for bone nuts. Taking in consideration how crappy did the newest Love Rock seem to my eyes (I can picture it would happen the same to my ears), maybe some day we?ll begin to see plastic nuts EVERYWHERE! I tried an ebony nut on XC Wolfcaster and it was amazing, but wears up faster so I raplaced it with a graphite one. Anyhow, ebony brings a more woody, warmer tone. I bought an unknown, no-named LP copy some years ago with a curious nut made of a three-layer sandwich (plastic/brass/plastic), and I believe it would be a "compromise" solution placed between plastic and brass nuts... so its sound would be somewhere between this two choices, too (less metallic tone than using only brass, I guess).

-if you?d like an EVEN MORE powerful, rich sound, you can think about putting a real String-Thru-Body on your guitar. I know somebody will gasp while reading it, and I keep on mind that any LP without its usual tailpiece would not look the same... but men, we?re talking about theorical improvements and this one is one of the most effective tricks which I?ve tried! My two modified SG replicas wouldn?t sound the same without this mod...

-you can try lots of things with your stock pups: putting a wide range of metallic materials against the lower part of the pickup (any of them with a different tonal effect on the sound produced), even putting an additional magnet going from the ones used on fridge doors to anything you can find with some time and interest. I promise I?ll try the additional flat magnet trick and I?ll tell you about the results. I?ve even tried with some different pole-piece screws (with different head gauge/height) on vintage-type pups and there?s a lot to talk about it because it is effective. So this can be used on modern pups, too (by the way... do yoy have any guitar which has got badly aligned its strings and its pickup pole pieces??? you can try to put some wider screws to minimize that problem)

-you could also try to put different types of bridges/saddles. there are some bridges available with plastic saddles (gasp!), brass saddles (works quite well) or steel saddles (I placed one into my Tokai LR, it sounds OK and it is MUCH more safe against oxidation as I?ve got very corrosive sweat)

you can do lots of things to improve ANYTHING, you just have to forget any prejudice... our worse limitations are inside our head, so don?t be affraid of trying anything!



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[Anonymous]

Enough already! :evil:

 

[mestre]

YOU CAN GO HELL, TOO...

I simply gave some simple answers to a truely silly question :lol: .

It seems to me that all this forums suffer the same disease... you?re like schoolboys, it is impossible to take a discussion with an isolated member beacuse all his "classmates" tend to hang round taking part... usually making use of a three-years-old-boy mind.

A last word for Luis... you know as well as me that my axes don?t cost 60 ? brand new (nor used!), even the cheapest one of them... or you?re an *******, or a "son-of-seven-milks", or you simply wanted to damage me or my business to get some fun (if I can name it "business" by the moment, actually!)

Maybe the answer is "yes" in the three cases, but I?m not decided to know it anymore... bye everybody!


Uh,,, and all of you know as well as me that Tokai axes are becoming true **** (except the expensive ones), just as it happens with all "dinosaur brands"...




"There is no blindest person than the one who doesn?t want to see"



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[Ozeshin]

son-of-seven-milks"

WTF kinda insult is that?
M8..I understand that your grasp of the English language is slim at best...but for someone who struggles to use the language you've used more bullsh!t,pointless words to get across your aimless dribble that I've ever seen
If you had a f***king point to all that lunatic rambling I think it just eluded 99.9% of all posters.
Time to pull the pin...go back to your native tongue and STFU.
Louis...when he speaks Spanish is it the same aimless ranting? :roll:
Oh and before I get called the "seventh son of a goat herder from Uzbekistan"...BITE ME..!!! :evil:
And for the record...I remember you now....you posted under some D!ckhed name a while back asking questions about a Tokai that you got ripped off from on Ebay and when you copped the same response that you're getting now you joined the forums under the Mestre nick thinking that we were all too stoopid to notice...m8...we pegged you as an out and out TOOL from day one of your posts...F**CK OFF back under your rock...let's see what name you come back under shall we?..nobody gives a Sh!t about your "special elite custom mods" that you do to your nameless 6-string turds...just go and don't let the door hit your generously proportioned arse on the way out..!!! :evil:...YOU BEEN TOLD SON NOW FOAD..!!!!

 

[leadguitar_323]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah....bahahahahahahahahaha.....no translation needed there..???

 

[Ozeshin]

I bet he asks me to explain "FOAD"
And i bet it takes him two pages full of ******** til he gets to the point :lol:

 

[leadguitar_323]

QUOTE.... It seems to me that all this forums suffer the same disease... you?re like schoolboys, it is impossible to take a discussion with an isolated member beacuse all his "classmates" tend to hang round taking part... usually making use of a three-years-old-boy mind.... In case no ones told you ....thats what a forum is for. Your in the wrong place anyway...you need Dorrie Evens...or Agony Aunt or Dear Jane...

 

[Ozeshin]

OMG Mick...Dorrie Evans?..you're showing your age now m8

 

[sneakyjapan]

son-of-seven-milks"

WTF kinda insult is that?
/quote]

I dunno but I`ve been called worse.

 

[Anonymous]

you?re an *******, or a "son-of-seven-milks"

OMG! My grandmother warned me, on her death bed.. "It's bad enough that you have to play those stupid guitars, but promise me that you'll never become a son-of-seven-milks!" So I promised her that I wouldn't, & now it seems I have broken my promise... I AM a son-of-seven-milks! OMG!!

Is it treatable?