Greco Dry Z pickups

[MIJvintage]

I have been curious for some time about the fabled Greco ?Dry Z? pickups, mainly because of the laurels they have received from the few here that have played them. I have been curious to actually know what the fuss, the hype, and the mystique is all about.

I have heard statements like, ?the next best thing to original PAFs? as an example, when those that have played Dry Z pups offer an explanation about them.

I don?t care for the EGF series in general & I?m not gonna shell out $3K or more for a guitar I don?t want so, how else to get these Dry Zs? Well, I did what I said I would never do; I $helled out $everal bill$ for a (matched) set of Dry Z pups.

Thanks to TF member RyanC for these :wink:

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I installed the Dry Z pups in my 1989 Greco EG plain top, with stock/original Greco electronics that are pretty much the identical electronics these would have been hooked up to in a 1980 EGF 1200.

I believe I now know what the fuss, the hype, and the mystique is all about

The thing that strikes me most about these is the clarity & the cleanness of tone.
I don?t remember playing another set of ?buckers that has the clarity & the definition of these pickups.
Mind you this is via a normal channel.

Played via a 2nd channel with a bit of gain & reverb the complexity of sound & the real fun begins but there is no loss of the previous clarity & the definition of tone; it?s quite interesting.

I don?t know if a set of Dry Z pups is worth the multiple bill$ that I paid for them but then again, I have seen these go for 5 to 6 bill$.
After all, these were only produced for less amount of years than original PAFs, and of course, they aren?t making these any longer.

Sorry Huw, the 1989 EG isn't arriving in the UK with the Dry Zs

I am thinking the next place of residence for these will be my Bacchus BLS-59 8)

 

[LarryC]

yeah,but they have veneer tops :wink:

 

[SUSHI GUY]

Who made DRY Z? I heard a few companies made them for Greco then.

 

[leadguitar_323]

I thought Maxon was the only company to make dry Z's.

Mick

 

[RyanC]

I believe I now know what the fuss, the hype, and the mystique is all about

The thing that strikes me most about these is the clarity & the cleanness of tone.

I think the Dry Z tone is really hard to put into words, so I usually don't try, but I think you've done a good of explaining it above Rich. I'm so glad to hear you are happy with them!

I may have a second set for sale in the near future if you think that LS320 could use a boost! Thanks again Rich!

 

[greco_burst]

Who made DRY Z? I heard a few companies made them for Greco then.

Interesting question, but it is a fact that Maxon has made Greco pickups, and put serial numbers on them to identify which guitar factory they went to (or were made) and a date, the best dating system for me anyway, was in mid 1977 when they went to 6 digits, and only were using 1 or 2 as the first digit, the first digit meant which guitar factory they were to go, 1 = Dyna Gakki and 2 = Fujigen, this much i do know, until i think in 1982 they put a 5 or a 8 in the first digit... :roll: ....never a dull moment with Greco, easily the hardest at times. 8) but the coolest 8)

 

[soundcreation]

Anybody have or want to make some recordings of them? With Les Pauls?

Well not to be too presumptuous about my own may or may not be Dry Z's but your description is what I was thinking when I first played my guitar. The note definition is really amazing.

 

[SUSHI GUY]

About how much is the set of good condition DRY Z's in Japan lately?
And on E-bay in everywhere?

 

[MIJvintage]

I believe I now know what the fuss, the hype, and the mystique is all about

The thing that strikes me most about these is the clarity & the cleanness of tone.

I think the Dry Z tone is really hard to put into words, so I usually don't try, but I think you've done a good of explaining it above Rich. I'm so glad to hear you are happy with them!

I may have a second set for sale in the near future if you think that LS320 could use a boost! Thanks again Rich!

OMG, please don't temp me

My idea is to try this set in several guitars but if I put them into one guitar and it just sounds 'too good' then trying them in others may not be an option; then I may need a $econd $et :-?

I really liked what I heard from them installed in the 1989 EG plain top especially from the bridge position

Trying them next in my Bacchus BLS-59.
The 59 is a monster of an axe AFA the lumber, tall frets, big/chunky 59 neck profile, & the awesome playability but the pickups (as usual for Bacchus Les Pauls) fall short.
After hearing the Zs in the EG, I can only imagine what they may sound like in the Bacchus.
If I like what I hear after they are in the BLS-59 they may be staying put 8)


AFA the price of Dry Z pups; the original MSRP was listed in the 1980 Greco catalog as 20,000 yen.
At the (current) conversion rate that would be $427 for two.
For a pickup that was produced for maybe three years at the most, and considering they are IMO fairly rare, a (matched) set of Dry Z pups is probably a fair deal at the current market rate.

Am I glad I blew 6 bill$ on a set of Dry Z pups? No :-?
Do I really REALLY like them? Yes 8)

 

[Mick51]

"The thing that strikes me most about these is the clarity & the cleanness of tone.
I don?t remember playing another set of ?buckers that has the clarity & the definition of these pickups. "

That's a characteristic of a true PAF, the clarity and note separation. But even when you really clean them up, they still exhibit a bit of what I would call a reed-like or "tweedy" characteristic. As you open them up, you get a bit of gravel with the bite; but, they maintain that clarity and note definition.

Thanks for sharing your hands-on impressions of them.

 

[japanstrat]

The 1 = Dyna Gakki and 2 = Fujigen for the first number of the serial comes from a Japanese guy who was taking a guess.

It turns out that it's not true.

For instance, the Ibanez 70s guitars have Super 70s made by Maxon as were the Greco pickups, with a 1 and 2 first serial number.

Now I know from Jim Donahue who worked for Ibanez that Ibanez were never made by Dyna Gakki except for the Ibanez Blazer series.

So the 1 = Dyna Gakki and 2 = Fujigen = BS.

Also there are Grecos around with one pickup starting with a 1 and the other pickup starting with a 2 in the same guitar.

The 1 and 2 beginning pickup serial numbers are in both the YXXXX and MYYXXXX Greco guitar serial number formats.
The YXXXX and MYYXXXX Greco guitar serial number formats are both Fujigen's from looking at the guitars body routing.
The different YXXXX and MYYXXXX Greco guitar serial number formats might be due to different distribution around Japan.

Sometimes, Fujigen would install what pickups were hanging aound the factory.

I've seen a late 1970s Greco that had Super 70 pickups installed rather than the U-3000 or U-4000 pickups that the Greco was supposed to have had.

Super 70s, U-1000, Dry Z etc are all Maxon pickups up until late 1981.

The second number of the serial number is the year and the 3rd or 3rd and 4th number is the month (depending on if it's a 5 or 6 digit serial number, 5 digit serial = one digit for the month) and the end two numbers are the day.

Fujigen took over from Maxon as the pickup maker for Grecos and Ibanez's in late 1981 so most Greco Super Reals and 70 Grecos have Maxon made pickups and so do the 70s Ibanez guitars.

The Dry Z's might have a A3 magnet, which might be part of their sound.
The U-2000 seems to have a A5 magnet and the U-1000 seems to have a A8 magnet like the Super 70s.

Tracking down a A3 magnet and putting it in a U-2000 pickup might make it close to a Dry Z.
I don't really know because I havn't tried it.

I know that their are magnet difference between the low to high end Maxon Greco pickups but I'm not sure of any winding or wire differences.

If there is no difference between a Dry Z and a U-2000 pickup in terms of winding or wire differences then just changing magnets will make one become the other.

The original price difference of a Dry Z and a U-2000 was not huge so they might be very similar and maybe the same but with different magnets.

Dry 20,000 Yen
PU-2 15,000 Yen
U-2000 12,000 Yen
U-1000 10,000 Yen

Maxon seemed to have been copying the Gibson T-top pickups rather than Gibson PAF's for the Dry Z and U-1000 etc and Maxon used different magnets for the different pickup models.
The Maxon bobbin design looks like a Gibson T-top design and it makes a bit of sense that in the 70s Maxon would copy a Gibson T-top rather than a Gibson PAF as all the vintage BS wasn't really there in the 70s and the T-tops were more recent and the ones to copy.

 

[SUSHI GUY]

About how much is the set of good condition DRY Z's in Japan lately?
And on E-bay in everywhere?

 

[greco_burst]

The 1 = Dyna Gakki and 2 = Fujigen for the first number of the serial comes from a Japanese guy who was taking a guess.

It turns out that it's not true.

For instance, the Ibanez 70s guitars have Super 70s made by Maxon as were the Greco pickups, with a 1 and 2 first serial number.

Now I know from Jim Donahue who worked for Ibanez that Ibanez were never made by Dyna Gakki except for the Ibanez Blazer series.

So the 1 = Dyna Gakki and 2 = Fujigen = BS.

Also there are Grecos around with one pickup starting with a 1 and the other pickup starting with a 2 in the same guitar.

The 1 and 2 beginning pickup serial numbers are in both the YXXXX and MYYXXXX Greco guitar serial number formats.
The YXXXX and MYYXXXX Greco guitar serial number formats are both Fujigen's from looking at the guitars body routing.
The different YXXXX and MYYXXXX Greco guitar serial number formats might be due to different distribution around Japan.

Sometimes, Fujigen would install what pickups were hanging aound the factory.

I've seen a late 1970s Greco that had Super 70 pickups installed rather than the U-3000 or U-4000 pickups that the Greco was supposed to have had.

Super 70s, U-1000, Dry Z etc are all Maxon pickups up until late 1981.

The second number of the serial number is the year and the 3rd or 3rd and 4th number is the month (depending on if it's a 5 or 6 digit serial number, 5 digit serial = one digit for the month) and the end two numbers are the day.

Fujigen took over from Maxon as the pickup maker for Grecos and Ibanez's in late 1981 so most Greco Super Reals and 70 Grecos have Maxon made pickups and so do the 70s Ibanez guitars.

The Dry Z's might have a A3 magnet, which might be part of their sound.
The U-2000 seems to have a A5 magnet and the U-1000 seems to have a A8 magnet like the Super 70s.

Tracking down a A3 magnet and putting it in a U-2000 pickup might make it close to a Dry Z.
I don't really know because I havn't tried it.

I know that their are magnet difference between the low to high end Maxon Greco pickups but I'm not sure of any winding or wire differences.

If there is no difference between a Dry Z and a U-2000 pickup in terms of winding or wire differences then just changing magnets will make one become the other.

The original price difference of a Dry Z and a U-2000 was not huge so they might be very similar and maybe the same but with different magnets.

Dry 20,000 Yen
PU-2 15,000 Yen
U-2000 12,000 Yen
U-1000 10,000 Yen

Maxon seemed to have been copying the Gibson T-top pickups rather than Gibson PAF's for the Dry Z and U-1000 etc and Maxon used different magnets for the different pickup models.
The Maxon bobbin design looks like a Gibson T-top design and it makes a bit of sense that in the 70s Maxon would copy a Gibson T-top rather than a Gibson PAF as all the vintage BS wasn't really there in the 70s and the T-tops were more recent and the ones to copy.

Well.....it is my understanding that Ibanez (hoshino gakki) actually used Dyna Gakki for more than just the Blazer, so this is most likely not, and I know they also used Fujigen and Tiesco,

That is why i believed in what you suggest is BS being the theory of 1 = Dyna Gakki and 2 = Fugijen, which, may well be okay if that is purely a Greco thing, but seems it isn't...

I still think it is plausible theory, purely because of Fujigen being involved heavily with ibanez and greco, but for the second factory of Dyna Gakki and Tiesco.....well.......your man from ibanez knows right?

 

[greco_burst]

Also...with this Ibanez thing.....

I would suggest that the theory is correct provided ALL Ibanez Maxon pickups excluding Blazers with 6 digits would have a 2, being for Fujigen, and if not.......well, thats that then, hehehehehe

Who knows right? the 1 could actually be for Tiesco as well, and not only Dyna gakki......

 

[japanstrat]

Here is the Japanese site.

http://psyco.jp/greco/01/stamp.html

They basically say that the first digit 1 or 2 or whatever being what factory is a guess.
It turns out it's not right.

The 2nd digit year date is a guess as well but it seems to be right from looking at a lot of Grecos and Ibanez's and comparing the 2nd digit year date with the guitars serial date.


The Ibanez Blazers were made in the early 80s by Dyna Gakki and Super 70s from the 1970s have first digit 1 and 2 numbers and were used by Fujigen for Fujigen made Ibanez guitars in the 1970s.

A Maxon serial first digit 1 Super 70 from 1977 and a first digit 2 Super 70 from 1977 used in Fujigen made Ibanez guitars can be seen here http://forum.japanaxe.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=768

So the first digit being the factory is not right.
I have no idea what it stands for.

 

[greco_burst]

They say on that website http://psyco.jp/greco/01/stamp.html that the first digit is the guitar factory that maxon sent them to, not really what factory they were made at.

As for Ibanez well, they were only made at Fujigen from 1970 and Dyna Gakki for Blazers......

edit: removed comment

 

[Koubayashi]

About how much is the set of good condition DRY Z's in Japan lately?
And on E-bay in everywhere?

Well, since nobody cares to answer I'll give you an answer.

I bought a set DryZ in Japan today and I paid nearly 50000yen.
A bit on the expensive side but that is life
However, I need them badly to make an EGF1800 100% stock.

Intetrnationally they cost around 600$.

 

[greco_burst]

The theory is still plausible, and the theory is based on pickups that went to Greco NOT Ibanez,

Ibanez doesn't get a mention in the theory, because it is based on pickups that went to Greco only.....8)

So, i am not convinced either way, however, it is important to verify this theory....so for the moment,
the first digit is unknown, for Greco guitars, couldn't careless about ibanez if discussing Greco here.

Edit, it is not a theory really, it is a suggestion from someone in Japan anyway.....likely plausible for Greco only.

 

[leadguitar_323]

If you do a search there is piles of great info on the origins and factories that made the Greco branded guitars. They include info on the Tokai made Greco'sThe cort made Greco's and plenty more. I think {if i remember carefully},Dyna Gakki didn't make any Greco guitars,They were involved in distribution. Where in Brisbane are you?

Mick

 

[leadguitar_323]

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10431

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10362&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

If you want to know more PM Japanstrat he is a wealth of information on the Greco guitars.

Mick