*Flawed Tokai part 2........*

[Schocker]

Richard, I'm glad to hear you value custom service so highly. A well-run business with such principles deserves to succeed and I wish you luck.

However! :wink: I still have reservations regarding UK dealers as they are still beholdent to the official UK distributor ultimately, for one thing. Seemingly there has been little consistency in their conduct regarding Supreme's case and that does not rest easily with me.

Secondly, your "wager that there is naff all in the price" between yours and that of a Japanese dealer just doesn't stand up. I followed the link to your eBay listing and the first MIJ Tokai I found was an LC70 with a BuyItNow of ?579, plus (a very reasonable, I must add!) delivery charge of ?10. If I were to order that same guitar from Japan, after shipping, VAT and import duty, I would be saving about ?150. Now, maybe business is so good for you (and I'd be pleased to think it is) that ?150 is small change and therefore "naff all" but for me it's still a fair quantity of loot (or 'the start of a new guitar fund', as I tend to think of money!!).

You seem like a decent bloke from your posts on here and if your service is as good as you claim then that should be a good incentive for people to give you their custom. But please focus on that as a marketing point, not the price, because it's far more credible. A dealer who says, as you have, that you'll take responsibility to take care of the customer is worth a lot. As long as you deliver on your promise!

 

[guitarslinger]

Well - i wasn't working on ?150 being the margin.

You could nearly pick up a very tasty washburn for that....but that is the subject of another forum me thinks.

http://www.cocosound.jp/cocosound/tokai/index.html

84000 yen is approx ?400 plus vat and import duties on top is going to add what? c?100 - so the Uk price - and i believe we are the cheapest at the moment, is roughly ?70 quid out. I'm not going to start putting a value on peace of mind, but it'd have to be more in it than that for me...but that's just me. Of course there might be cheaper out there in the rest of the world?

I'm not getting in to a price thing - more that i wasn't equating c?200 with naff all money....the day ?200 aint a lot of cash is the day i quit the rat race mate. :lol:

I firmly believe that issues like the one raised by supreme - should be dealt with by the retailer. Simple as. It wouldn't matter who the distributor is so long as a shop issues refunds in an appropriate way, speaks to customers, and heck - even do crazy things like checking guitars before they go out.

This whole thing stinks and we aint all the same....i mean...EVEN Coda would have taken that guitar back!! haha - that IS a joke by the way. Industry gags allowed.

 

[jawilluk]

A friend of mine in Japan checked out some prices for me a few months ago and said it seemed quite easy to get 15% off list price. So the figures would be;

Retail Y84000
Disc Y12600

Cost Y71400

Cost GBP ?350
Duty & VAT ?75

Total ?425

Difference ?154

 

[math2014]

A friend of mine in Japan checked out some prices for me a few months ago and said it seemed quite easy to get 15% off list price. So the figures would be;

Retail Y84000
Disc Y12600

Cost Y71400

Cost GBP ?350
Duty & VAT ?75

Total ?425

Difference ?154

Yes but you ommited shipping if i understand correctly and vat&duty applies to final price+shipping

 

[supreme]

Guys, I don't want to interfere but could you open another thread about importing from Japan and the difference in price you would get if you would buy in your own country. I don't want this thread locked, no offense.

Thanks.

 

[TUNAFREAK]

Supreme, they should be sending you a ES 155 for all of your pain and such. I live in the US and there is no duty or taxes of any kind. I paid a little over $1,000.00 for my LS 150 and it cost the list price minus 20% to get any Tokai through Ishibashi music of Japan. Here is the price that I paid for my ES 155 and LC 185 from Ishibashi:

Tokai ES155/VNT with hard case --- 124,000Yen =$1096.76
Tokai LC185/WR with hard case --- 148,000Yen =$1309.04

Or 592.25 GBP
706.88 GBP

I love America!

Mark

 

[bruno]

yes mark but do not forget you guys have to get them from japan... here in europe we have people dealing tokais who can get them cheaper... the lc185 for example

one point to our side

still hope to visit you there one day to play some blues eheh

sorry for the off topic

 

[Schocker]

Guys, I don't want to interfere but could you open another thread about importing from Japan and the difference in price you would get if you would buy in your own country. I don't want this thread locked, no offense.

Thanks.

Fair point, Supreme. I don't wish to divert attention from the main point of this thread.

Let's take the import discussion to a new location! (It's quite interesting to get the different views on it.)

Here...

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=30509#30509

 

[TSL]

You know, everyone says that in the USA they don't get charged duty from orders placed through Ishibashi. I however, had the Post Man (Post Woman actually) appear at my door with guitar in hand, as well as a very official form requiring about 10% (maybe closer to 9%) on the spot for customs in order to hand me said instrument.

I had considered this possible, as it was an inexpensive guitar (FR-53) I happily (if dissapointedly) paid the fee.

Now my guitar went through customs in Chicago, and the people who say they don't pay seem to be on the coasts, so maybe one office or the other(s) has different guidelines (though it's a Federal reg, and should be the same). I would order again from Ishibashi, and found thier service to be tops. They sent me hi-res photos of the instrument prior to shipping asking if it was OK! Couldn't ask for more. Obviously it is standard prctie for them to inspect a guitar, and not just pass it along as recieved from the manufacturer.


BTW, Rich AKA "guitarslinger" has been known to me for years now, and while we haven't met, we have corresponded on a number of different issues. If it were not for the double customs fee (first to the UK, then to the USA) I would've ordered from him without hesitation. Were I in the UK, I would likely buy from him first. Until someone proves otherwise, I hold his love of guitars, personal integrity, and business practices in high regard.

 

[guitarslinger]

Hey - thanks man.

 

[Donkey Oaty]

Tokai are of my xmas list .

 

[TUNAFREAK]

yes mark but do not forget you guys have to get them from japan... here in europe we have people dealing tokais who can get them cheaper... the lc185 for example

one point to our side

still hope to visit you there one day to play some blues eheh

sorry for the off topic

Thats true that we don't have Tokai dealers here, It's a real shame. I forgot to mention that there is no tax on internet sales also, so it is a real bargain. Of course if there is a problem with the guitar, its a long way back to Japan. I don't think I would feel comfortable with buying another brand in this maner without seeing it first. Knock on wood, so far I have been very happy with the Tokais that have come my way. But the way, how much is a LC 185 in dollars when you get one in Spain? Also, if you make it over here to jam you have a place to stay on the west coast!

Mark

 

[RedFish_Happy]

Tokai are of my xmas list .

I don't see the reason why!?

Yes, this particular guitar has passed the QC at Tokai. Unfortunate... but it happened. This happens with items from almost every manufacturer in this world, it doesn't matter what they are manufacturing.
Yes, the performance of the UK distributor and ONE (one!!!) UK dealer is more than questionable in this particular case (and I feel supreme's pain! I would go ballistic!!!).
But still... if you are in the market for a great Les Paul guitar without paying these exorbitant prices the Gibson guy want to charge you, you should look at Tokai Love Rock guitars.

 

[bruno]

yes mark but do not forget you guys have to get them from japan... here in europe we have people dealing tokais who can get them cheaper... the lc185 for example

one point to our side

still hope to visit you there one day to play some blues eheh

sorry for the off topic

Thats true that we don't have Tokai dealers here, It's a real shame. I forgot to mention that there is no tax on internet sales also, so it is a real bargain. Of course if there is a problem with the guitar, its a long way back to Japan. I don't think I would feel comfortable with buying another brand in this maner without seeing it first. Knock on wood, so far I have been very happy with the Tokais that have come my way. But the way, how much is a LC 185 in dollars when you get one in Spain? Also, if you make it over here to jam you have a place to stay on the west coast!

Mark

well I don't know how much they cost in spain, because I don't live in spain, I'm from portugal...

but there are a few european dealers who can get the lc185 and ither tokais for quite a good price... :wink:

 

[Schocker]

Donkey Oaty wrote:
Tokai are of my xmas list.

I don't see the reason why!?

Yes, this particular guitar has passed the QC at Tokai. Unfortunate... but it happened. This happens with items from almost every manufacturer in this world, it doesn't matter what they are manufacturing.

Depriving yourself of a Tokai is missing the point, DO!

Acknowledging the error and sending the message that sloppy business practices (either in manufacture or the chain of supply) is not acceptable will hopefully mean that a case like Supreme's is less likely to occur again.

As it is, from our collective experiences, on the whole Tokai's quality control is very good and they make great guitars. The day when people stop talking in shocked terms about finding a sub-standard Tokai is the one to worry about...

 

[sneakyjapan]

A friend of mine in Japan checked out some prices for me a few months ago and said it seemed quite easy to get 15% off list price. So the figures would be;

Retail Y84000
Disc Y12600

Cost Y71400

Cost GBP ?350
Duty & VAT ?75

Total ?425

Difference ?154

the standard is 20% off list in japan...if any shop offers less, go to another. some sellers on yahoo japan sometimes give 0% but they don`t seem to sell many guitars. i try to buy during sales when I can get more then the typical 20%...or better yet...used, i`ve been buying only used guitars for a while now...only new one was the Godin at $250.oo in january...but only because it was priced to move.

 

[jawilluk]

Guys, This thread has gone off topic. A new thread about importing has been started:

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6018

Lets leave this one for Supreme's QC issue. There are still some people who haven't commented on the latest events!

 

[Donkey Oaty]

Tokai are of my xmas list .

I don't see the reason why!?

.

Personal.



Look around Suffolk , Northhants and Cambs for a clue

 

[Jamieh]

This is all very interesting and rather shocking.

I am a Tokai dealer although have only recently started doing it.

I have found the quality to be very good and the service given by Bob has also been very good.

Sometimes the supply is a little sketchy and I am very annoyed that the LS150s have been delayed (they were meant to have been here in April) but these things happen!

We have to remember that Tokai UK is a relatively small outfit and the backup is not as comprehensive as with the larger manufacturers. Of course we still expect the service, from all end sof the supply chain, but sometimes have to be a bit more patient.

I have not to date had any problems with any Tokai guitars and Bob has always been honest with me regarding what he has/doesn't have in stock and has always been efficient at delivering stuff to me for my customers.

Whilst I totally agree that the situation that this thread arose from is totally unacceptable, it is a one off and we should not be put off a very good product based on this one disaster!

Quite simply, as GuitarSlinger says, if a bad guitar had come into my hands I would have an obligation to either send it back to Bob, or ring him and get a discount and sell it off at a discount with the problems noted. That is what I would do and what any other respectable dealer would do.

Of course, we are only human and on occasion we make mistakes, in these situations we should acknowledge our mistakes and rectify them. Such a situation has never arisen with me yet, but if it does (which I hope it never does) I shall be sure to put it right!

The product itself though is still very good and the supply arrangements in the Uk are good.

Don't let one bad apple spoil the whole **** bunch!

 

[luis]

About the delay in production just remember Tokai is not a large factory like others,and they are concerned to the quality.The 150s are a very special model and reaching the high end so they would be make them very good.....