Springy Sound 1980 ST 60 (or 80)

[JohnA]

I think all of this could well have put Mike off Tokais for life, and I can't say I would blame him. I have sold a few guitars in the past and would always treat a buyer the way I would expect to be treated.

I personally think dickrash has been unreasonable in the extreme, it was obvious Mike was after an ST80, and also obvious (from the original ebay listing) that as far as the seller knew it was a ST60.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Rossi, I appreciate that, but right now the last thing I want to do is buy a Springy! Buying one seems to be too much of a lottery to be worth the risk. I already have Strats that I love.

Mike

 

[kmarccoco]

well we havn't heard from the seller anymore.. I was wondering if he had any second thoughts about refunding your money.

I was hoping a few other seinor members would have weighed in on this thread also.

 

[Anonymous]

It's funny you should say that. I was only thinking earlier that there is an amazing silence from the experts and dealers who usually dominate any discussions about Springys. They are usually tripping over each other to offer an opinion about what is genuine and what isn't. But in this case - silence!

Other forum members have commented on this to me in private messages. I wonder why they have kept so quiet on this one? Would any of them like to comment?

With regard to the seller, his last words to me were:

"Mike,

after all that libel and slander i?m not willing to discuss or coment
anything anymore."

As I pointed out to him in reply, something can only be libel if it is untrue (slander is spoken), and I have not said anything that is untrue, either here or in private messages.

One option that is very tempting is simply to refuse to accept the package from DHL (assuming it arrives), since I know that what it contains is not an ST80, which is what I bought (all of my PMs where I agreed to buy the guitar were headed ST80, and so were all the sellers replies).

However, to do that, I would need to have a solicitor in Germany to persue the claim for the return of my money. If it was in England, I could handle the County Court claim myself; in Germany I can't.

Does anyone know a good German solicitor?

Mike

 

[dongrosh]

what do you want to hear from me? It?s all said, your (members decission is formed - i?m the badman and Mike is the good one)

First - i use a translator cause me english is not as good as it should be - i?m sorry about some failure from that - but i think you understand what i mean.

So, why have I TO Yield?


Facts:
1.)
Before that i was only about 10 times on this forum - so didn?t know Mike before like some of you and his wish of an ST80, i mean ST80 only.

2.)
I?m (as said 100times) not an tokai specialist, the differnce between the models has been not known before and now too.

3.)
I bought a "Springy" from Gottfried cause He IS THE Specialist-
For me it was no matter if it is ST 60 or 80, i just liked the guitar for its wood and color. It was an impulive Buy.

4.)
I decided to sell it cause i wanted to buy an 335, now i know it is an 150R - it?s the same in thet case , ES 100, 150, 150R - was not vital for me.

5.)
I phoned with Gottfried and he told me that i bought an ST80, he can confirm that - so i was sure to have an ST80 - and the guitaris as an ST80 on his website too - So for me it is an ST80 - Togps is the specialist not me.

6.)
I offerd the Springy on the german ebay, either written ST60 or 80, i reply - it was not essential for me.

7.)
i put a link to the auction on this froum written Springy ST60 (or80), or 80 say - maybe an 80, say: I?m sure what it is, say: you guys know that better then me.

8.)
I get a lot of "buy it to me" mails and some pm from members here.

NO ONE asked me: Is it an ST60 or ST80
NO ONE asked me about the finish
NO ONE akesd me about the neck

They all just wanted to buy the "guitar"

9.)
Some members here decided it MUST be an ST80 - NOT ME!

10.)
Yes, i got pm?s from Mike with the subjekt ST80 HE PUT IN -
but if you believe that or not - i have not noticed that in that kind he
want?s to picture now. I just have done what everyone of you do:
I repleyd:

here a little test i just made with Mike - he replyd that
"Subject: Re: togps is the specialist - not dongrosh"


I know, it?s not fair, and i made it just to demonstrate not to peeve anyone.

11.)

Mike has never asked the right questions, he has made an ill-considered
purchase and now he regret and is looking for the mistakes only on my person - and that?s not fair IMO.

TO CONCLUDE THIS BUSINESS I WILL MADE A FAIR OFFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A:
Mike has to confirm that he 50% bear the blame

B:
WE (Mike and me) together sell the guitar, we can offer it in germany and england with NO shipping costs.

C:
I get about 985 ? from Mike (after shipping costs)
AS we will both bear the blame 50%(hope that is right english), so we
both pay the piper.

Example:

We sell for 805 ?, then Mike will get from me:

985 ? - 805 ? / 2= 90 ? + 805 ? = 895 ?

i think that?s an fair offer and we both save face.

 

[Anonymous]

Before I consider that in more detail, can we be clear where this poor little guitar is right now? Is it still with you in Germany, or is it half way to me in England?

I feel so sorry for this poor old Tokai. Whoever is at fault here, the guitar certainly isn't, and she deserves better treatment than this.

Mike

 

[Anonymous]

I phoned with Gottfried and he told me that i bought an ST80, he can confirm that - so i was sure to have an ST80 - and the guitaris as an ST80 on his website too - So for me it is an ST80 - Togps is the specialist not me.

Well that's not what he told me! I really think we need togps to comment on this, I think a number of forum members would like to hear his comments. togps advertised it as an ST60 - that's what it said on the advert from which dongrosh bought it, so I'm assuming that it is an ST60.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120148854966

I wasn't aware of this until after I bought it. ST80s have a nitro finished V profile neck. dongrosh has told me that the neck isn't nitro, and it's not a V profile. So how can togps state that this is an ST80?

Come on togps, we need you to comment on this. It's an ST60 isn't it? If it isn't, why did you sell it as an ST60 only recently?

Until we sort this major detail out, I don't see how we can discuss the proposed solution sensibly.

Mike

 

[dongrosh]

dongrosh has told me that the neck isn't nitro
Mike

wrong again:

i told you that she has not an V-neck - i said i?m not sure about the finish -
i?m not able to say SURE it is a thin poly or nitro

Well that's not what he told me!
Mike

and

wrong again II

you wrote here that you pm?d topgs and get this answer:

"I have. He commented "All features of this guitar are for a ST80 besides AFAIR the missing V-shape neck"

 

[dongrosh]

It?s all said, your (members decission is formed - i?m the badman and Mike is the good one)

As i got some pm?s and mails i want to excuse "in due form" for this
statement - cause you?re right - it has been only a handful members of
this forum who attacked me. The majority was fair enough to butt out.

 

[ned]

I'm locking this sad affair but before I did I wanted to comment on how this whole thing saddens me and how poorly it reflects on all of the people who participate on this forum.

I thought about deleting the entire thing but I will leave it up for people to learn. In the future DO NOT BRING YOUR ARGUMENTS WITH EACH OTHER ON THE FORUM IN PUBLIC.

If there is an attempt to open this discussion in public again I will delete the thread, if it happens more than once I will ban those that participated.

Lessons learned:

1) Do not buy or sell with newbies
2) We are all friends here (or so I hope) if someone needs to back out of a deal and they offer to cover your costs then let them - be a good neighbor.
3) If you do not know what your doing then please to do try and misrepresent your equipment. Ask for help. Pleading ignorant is not an excuse.

Dongrosh - if the guitar has not shipped I would refund stratman's money. If it has shipped I would allow him to return it at his cost and cover your expenses then refund the rest. You mentioned that you had many buyers interested then why go through the pain of forcing someone who has changed their mind to continue with the deal.

Lastly - do not send me PM's on this subject. What I have stated is FINAL. If I receive multiple PM's from someone on this I WILL BAN YOU.

This whole thing disgusts me to know end.