Burny Les Paul Custom identification help please

[Loobs]

Recently got this in Tokyo: the shop had it for sale as an RLC70 from "1990 to 2000". I paid around 700 euros. If it’s really that old, it’s in truly incredible condition. When did they phase out this headstock inlay for the ugly flower one?

It has the two-screw truss rod cover. The weird thing is, 65 & 70s usually have Gotoh tuners, at least the others I've seen. These look exactly the same as Gotohs but say “MADE IN JAPAN” on the back of them. I've seen an ObG with the same tuners.

It has no serial number on rear of headstock, which checks out for the model. Plays and sounds beautiful, much better than another cherry sunburst RLC70 for sale in the next shop, which wouldn't stay in tune for toffee. I assume the pickups are VH1 or 3? Has no fretboard nibs and probably weighs about 9lbs.

Any info appreciated – haven’t opened it up yet to check pot dates or serial no in pickup cavities, I will do as soon as my gf brings it back from Japan. I'll also add much better pics.

 

[Loobs]

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

- In 1990 that would've been an RLC-65 (with the 3-PU model becoming the RLC-70). So the earliest year would be 1991 for an RLC-70. No way to tell them apart.

- The tuners vary even on earlier RLCs, they're always the same but some have the small Gotoh logo on the cover plate or both the logo and "Gotoh" etched into it, some are plain, some may say Made in Japan...

- IIRC in my hazy brains the fret nibs were dropped later in the 90s but I may be wrong. Also the guitar may have been refretted.

- Pickups should be VH-1 (not the "legendary" aftermarket VH-1 but one of the 2 varieties that were used beginning in the later 80s). Only pics may or may not tell more.

- I'm too lazy to dig through all the catalogs now but the flower inlay was shown first in the late 90s and (IIRC again) it marks the end of the MIJ production.

 

[Loobs]

Hi Homer, thanks for the reply, that's great info. Do you think the guitar is MIJ and not MIC/MIK?

 

[Loobs]

Ubrigens, wo in Deutschland bist du?

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

I wasn't overly interested in post-80s Burnys (and identification is hard enough with the old ones) so I don't know much about them. I think there were RLCs with lighting bolt inlay and the same "winged" TRC (but held by 3 screws) believed to be MIK. Those also lack the fret nibs. Impossible to tell with any certainty from the 2 pics what yours is. Like always, detail shots, particularly of all cavities are needed.

Edit: Im Norden.

 

[Loobs]

It could be that, but upon looking at pictures they all have the 3-screw TRC. Also, the tuners on mine are stamped "made in Japan". So pics of pickup and control cavities will verify what it is?

 

[Loobs]

Another question - what should I be looking for in the cavities to ascertain where it was produced? Or is posting pictures here enough.

 

[Loobs]

https://www.mylespaul.com/threads/i...-the-mij-experts-would-be-outstanding.450599/ this one is its twin!

 

[Sigmania]

The one you linked has mini pots.

The pots can tell us a lot. If you can post pictures like the ones on the mlp forum (pickup routs, pickups, and pots) that would probably help sort this out.

 

[Loobs]

Will do as soon as I get it in my hands again.

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

Another question - what should I be looking for in the cavities to ascertain where it was produced? Or is posting pictures here enough.

Just post the pictures, please. Explaining this would mean typing a novel, the pots are one thing (the one you linked just looks like yet another Burny oddity). The tenon style and the paint in the cavity, the control cavity shape, the PU back sides... may or may not help. Burnys are notoriously hard to date and identify and very little is backed up by hard evidence.

 

[Loobs]

OK. Will do! Thx.

 

[Loobs]

Pics as requested. Basically identical to the guitar posted in My Les Paul earlier in the thread. Fujigen?

VH1, grey leads. Tuners labelled "made in Japan". Mini pots. Cheap caps. Bridge/tailpiece labelled SG. No serial no. anywhere.

Plays and sounds unbelievably good and the condition it's in is pretty insane. Is that long tenon?

 

[Sigmania]

That label is similar to Gotohs from around 2000.

I am having Deja Vu. We may have seen one like this around a year ago?

 

[Loobs]

The pickups?

I have no idea. The one I posted from Mylespaul.com earlier is its twin! So similar.

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

I see small pots in a (close to the original) cavity shape that's attributed to Korea production, no fret nibs and 3-screw TRC -> MIK

Not sure if or how long Japanese standard ("8107") Burny hardware and backside sticker VH-1 PUs (which IIRC superseded the PU frame sticker VH-1s at some point in the 90s) were used on MIK guitars and I wasn't aware that the MIK models have a long tenon, but I never studied those much. I'd guess second half of the 90s checks out for this guitar, a time when Dyna likely had to stop making Burnys anyway because they were busy making Fenders. Well, guesswork as always with Burnys.

 

[Sigmania]

I found the thread re: the VH1's with the red bordered label.

VH-1 Pickups

Not sure that we sorted out those particular ones with the red bordered label.

As I said, they are very similar to GOTOH pickups used in Tokais circa 2000-2005.

 

[Sigmania]

Could it be that like Tokai (1995-2005), some were made in Korea and some were made in Japan?

The mini pots are similar to Korean Tokais,



but the pickups look like Japanese GOTOH MKII pickups used in Tokais at this time (2000-2005).



Also, the hardware is Japanese.

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

No evidence other than the style of the labels but I'm almost sure that the pickups with that label are all made by Gotoh (-Pickups, not Gotoh Guts) mostly because they sometimes say so underneath the label. Re some in Japan, some in Korea - could be, maybe there was some transition over time... I don't know.

One reason why the "golden" era of vintage MIJ guitars is ~1977-90 is that things are documented pretty well and otherwise figured out nicely in that time. Before and after that time frame things become increasingly blurry, super hard to figure out and with massively diminishing returns on the effort.