2007 MIJ models

[Lau Mortensen]

Hi
I'm new to this place, and I have recently bought my first Tokai - but I can't figure out what model I bought.
I'm quite sure I paid a bit too much, but I don't care. I wanted it, after trying it.
It's a Love Rock, but without anything except Tokai on the headstock. It has the dimple style headstock.
It's a three piece plain top with short neck tenon, so it is not a high-end version.
It says Made in Japan, and the serial number is 0712200.
The seller was convinced that it was a 1980, since the serial number begins with a 0, but I think it must be 2007.
I found a catalog from 2007, but I can't find anything with a three piece top.
In a way, I don't care what it is... but I'm curious.
I upgraded it with a set of Monty's PAF pickups and capacitors, which I already had on order order for another guitar.
I really love it, but what might it be? Where there a LS50 in 2007, that wasn't mentioned in the catalog?

 

[Sigmania]

The seller was misleading you.

Yes it’s from 2007.

The dimple on the headstock is often called an "export dimple" on this forum. Model would be an ALS or ULS.

In 2007 something as low as a 50 model would have been made in China so the number is higher than that. I’ll check the catalogs.

 

[Sigmania]

Can you post pictures?

Would be great if they included the serial number, the top of the guitar, the original pickups, etc.

Thanks.

 

[Lau Mortensen]

I don't think he was trying to mislead me. He didn't insist on anything when I told him, that the dimple didn't exist in 1980, and that the 07... serial number meant 2007. He seemed surprised, as he bought as being a 1980 - without really caring about anything except it being a phenomenal LP.
The pickups were nice, but a bit wooly on the neck position. Now it's that "tele on steroids" thing...
There is a seem on the top just at the upper stud for the stop bar and one through the controls for the bridge pickups.

 

[Sigmania]

Those pickups are GOTOH. I believe MKII or MKIII.

 

[Sigmania]

Your guitar looks similar to this one with the same pickups.

2006 made TOKAI Love Rock LS-85 Lemon Drop Gotoh vintage PAF PU Made in Japan | Reverb

 

[Sigmania]

So 2007 ULS or ALS80VF I would say.

LS85F had a flamed sycamore veneer top.

2007 catalog

 

[Sigmania]

And here are the readings I have seen for those pickups.

Probably MKIII

LP-F (F&R)
Neck (F): 10.8k, 10.6k, 11.5k
Bridge (R): 11.2k, 11k, 11.5k

 

[Sigmania]

2 years later in 2009 LS80 is now called the LS90.

 

[Lau Mortensen]

Thank you Sigmania.
It does look very similar to the 2006 LS 85, except for the dimple, and the fact that mine doesn't say Love Rock. It's completely blank, and it doesn't seem to have been removed. Truss rod cover is the same two screw bullet style.
I have seen that catalog before, but wasn't sure because I couldn't find any three piece tops.

 

[Sigmania]

Edit: Was typing this while you sent the previous message.

I am noticing that the 2007 and 2009 catalog clearly say 2 piece top...

I wonder if there were some 3 piece, maybe early on in 2007?

The one from 2006 in the Reverb listing is also not a center seam top (likely a 3 piece).

 

[Sigmania]

Can you post a picture of your headstock?

 

[Lau Mortensen]

It's a three piece. Both seems are between the stop bar studs

Mine have a line running through the lower controls, which kinda reminded me of Bernie Marsdens 1959 "The Beast" Les Paul.

 

[Sigmania]

The thing with the top is weird. They are spec'd to have a 2 piece top from 2004 (LS75) -2009 (LS90) on that guitar. Or what I had presumed to be that guitar.

The dimple relates to the market it was sold in.

There have always been different models for different markets with Tokai and we don't have catalogs for all of them.

We can surmise a few things though:
- Your guitar has a poly finish.
- Those pickups are GOTOH. MKII or MKIII.
- It was at least partly made in Japan.
- And likely at the bottom of the line for guitars made in Japan and not made in China at that time.
- So it likely sold for between 40,000 yen (Chinese model price) and 80,000 yen (Japanese entry level).

 

[Lau Mortensen]

 

[Sigmania]

I need to give this some thought....

I have seen other odd stuff like this in the 90s. I had a guitar with no serial number that was apparently a MIJ Tokai, but some features were similar to Korean builds and Tokai had just started using Korean mfg on lower end guitars, but mine was in between. LS55GT. I had wondered if it was made in part in Korea and in part in Japan to save money. Never was able to sort that out and Tokai is very secretive about mfg.

Your guitar is reminding me of those guitars. Your pickups which may actually be MKIII and the 3 piece top and the light colored fretbaord are features we see on Korean and Chinese guitars.

Thinking out loud here...

This guitar seems to be in a gray area to say the least.

The Love Rock script being gone is not shocking to me. That was silk screend over the finish on many if not all models and can easily be buffed off.

 

[Sigmania]

Here is the 2007 catalog.

This guitar seems to fall between the Chinese ALS40VF and the Japanese LS80VF....

Now I see why you were confused!

 

[Lau Mortensen]

Something is odd about it for sure.
But as I said in my original post, I don't really care, but I'm curious...
It's by far the best LP style guitar I've ever played - so be it if it is a low-end slightly odd model.

 

[Sigmania]

You may even get lucky if there is a model number stamped in the neck pickup compartment. Not sure if you have taken pictures in there?

 

[Lau Mortensen]

I don't think I did, but as I remember there wasn't any numbers.
I'll have a look next time I change the strings.