tokai blowing away epiphone ??????

I just bought a new tokai love rock and I also own an epi les paul black beauty. Comparing the two side by side I'd have to say the epi has a slighty higher quality fit and finnish. They both sound great and I can't figure why I would need to change pu's on them as some posts suggest.

erm, are you trying to start a debate/argument? glad you like your epi but that was quite an odd post which some could take offense to :-?

I take no offence to wonder219's statement. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and he shows class by not saying "Tokai's are crap.." or whatever. I'm a little surprised to hear that the Epi finish is better than the Tokai, but our Ontario friend has them both in hand, and this is his observation.


Hmm...maybe we are too docile and charitable on this board...

LETS FLAME HIM!!! :wink:

Glad to hear you like your Epi. My own experience is fairly opposite from yours though: I have never played an Epi (and I've played a lot) that even came remotely close to my Japanese Tokai. If I would have, I would have gotten an Epi instead

I'm assuming your comparing the Epi to a Korean Tokai? If so, that would still be impressive as I've heard very good things about the Korean Tokais. Maybe you have an exceptionally nice Epi (or maybe the quality has really picked up the last 1.5 years).

As for the pickups on the Epi: what's your frame of reference as far as pickups go? I feel the pickups on the Epis I played were just usable, but nothign compared to 'quality' pickups. I swapped the pickups in my Tokai a few months ago, and while it sounded good before, it sounded amazing after the swap. Difference was night and day, even though they were similarly voiced pickups.

Epi ... hmmm. I reckon JSD might (rightly) argue his corner for the Tokai's LR's(MIK's) available in Canada. Epi guitars are like ugly women. Alright if your mate's got one, but you wouldn't want to take one home on a permanant basis yourself. Like ArthurS I've played a few in my time and nothing, not even the top end Epi's, came close to the MIJ Love Rock I've got now. I changed the pickup's too, and the guitar is as solid a piece of kit as you'd ever want - I sold my old Gibbo LP because it'd been replaced. Now I wouldn't argue that a Tokai and a Gibson sit side by side at God's right hand, but when price and giggability are factors, there is no guitar out there to beat a Tokai for value and build, and I'd still extend that to the MIK models. Epi are ok, but these days they're cheap copies made slightly more attractive ( ) by having the Gibson name attached (bit like having a famous cousin) - Tokai have always (in my opinion) sought to make replica's not copies. It's gotten them into enough trouble in the past to show they're serious. They stand up all by themselves.

Remember, opinions are like arseholes. Everyone's got one. :wink:

little-odgie said:

Epi ... hmmm. I reckon JSD might (rightly) argue his corner for the Tokai's LR's(MIK's)

Remember, opinions are like arseholes. Everyone's got one. :wink:

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Hehe, I think you nailed it on that one.....

Everyone is intitled to their own opinion, no matter how wrong it is.... :lol:

I prefer a Tokai over a Epiphone no doubt,they are not in the same league.

Back when the first Epi LP'***** the market in the early 90's I played one at the Guitar Center and it was really poor. The position of the knobs were way off and the neck wasn't centered!! Maybe they have improved , but they lost me with the initial offering. More than anything I hate the headstock shape, just looks Goofy :roll: on a Les Paul! :wink: TG

Epiphone produced some really good stuff in japan in the early 80's and later with the elite s?rie. Some later stuff made in korea is good too but for the most recent stuff I think it's more difficult to tell as there is so many factories producing some epiphone stuff that it' impossible to get a quality control.

I agree the low-end Epiphones are total crap but I was surprised by the Elitist series. I didn't even know Epiphone made "higher end" guitars until about two weeks ago.

I saw a nice cherry sunburst one that was priced at around $1700 Canadian. It looked great, finish was superb, nice weight, great neck - I was really impressed. Turned it over to see "Japan" on the back. It was easily better than the Gibson Les Paul Classics on the wall of the local Long & McQuade priced at $2200.

I also agree on the heastock - the Elitist one's are better than the low-end Epiphone but still wonky looking.

Jim

I'm talking about the "Elite" s?rie wich- I think- is different from the "Elitist" s?rie
The Elite were produced a few years ago (only for the japanese market, I believe) before the Elitiste serie, the head has the gibson open book shape.

Hey 20th Century Boy (or is it Mr. Bolan?)

I wasn't directing my comments at your post - I just wanted to comment on my recent Epiphone experience. I had written Epiphone off as total crap a while ago but I didn't realize there were several different "tiers" of quality under that name.

Here in Canada there are some Epi models that sell for under $300 - forget about those unless you're looking for a starter guitar for a young kid. Some are in the $500-$600 range and they're not bad. Not great, but not bad - their '56 Goldtop LP with P-90's fits into this range.

These Elitist ones are fantastic though. much like the older Japanese Tokai's I've played. Keep in mind I haven't played any really high end Tokai's but the one's I've played have been great - better than most Gibson LP's I've played actually.

Jim

hey chazmann, why would you be offended because i now have two great guitars? if i thought tokai was crap i wouldn't have bought it. i was just wondering about all the posts here that say epi sucks. it looks like some people have had bad experiences with epi. i guess i'm one of the lucky ones who got a great guitar from them.

8) I remember the MIJ Elite, in fact I saw one about 6 months ago on EBAY. There is no question in my mind about MIJ Epi's they are very nice. One thing that is really strange is what Gibson has done to the 1960 Classic. I bought a first issue Classic back in 91', the ones that say Les Paul Model and it's a Great guitar! But from what I have seen of the newer ones they are cutting corners! Fat binding in the cutaway, second rate hardware thats not what the originals are like. I got a honeyburst plain top and it's my favorite non Tokai ...fit and finish is top drawer. Seems like always there are better periods for different models. I would never consider a 70's Strat or a Silver Star, but thats my preferance, a great guitar but just not for me. I'm never offended cause I'm a tough Guy! :wink: TG

wonder219 said:

hey chazmann, why would you be offended because i now have two great guitars? if i thought tokai was crap i wouldn't have bought it. i was just wondering about all the posts here that say epi sucks. it looks like some people have had bad experiences with epi. i guess i'm one of the lucky ones who got a great guitar from them.

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For the most part, Tokai's name and reputation have been built on the Japanese series. On paper and in playtesting, the MIJ Tokais are in a higher league than epiphone in terms of sound and overall quality - they are also way closer to the original Les Paul specs.

The main thing for me is that Tokai guitars are "as-is" guitars. An Epiphone NEEDS upgrades and modifcations (electronics especially) before it can be considered useable.

Don't get me wrong, I used to own an epi and it was one of the slickest playing guitars I've ever seen (after serious work). But it lacked something. Maybe just heart.

wonder219 said:

hey chazmann, why would you be offended because i now have two great guitars? if i thought tokai was crap i wouldn't have bought it. i was just wondering about all the posts here that say epi sucks. it looks like some people have had bad experiences with epi. i guess i'm one of the lucky ones who got a great guitar from them.

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i didnt say anywhere in my post that "I" was offended.
fact is, tokai does beat epiphone hands down, anyone can tell you that. that is why they cost more.
epiphones are fine guitars, and i disagree with anyone who says they are 'total crap'. they arent. squires are total crap. epis serve their purpose, no one is pretending they stand up to the likes of gibson fender and tokai. they are for beginners, and reflect their price in terms of quality.
i happen to own an epi 335. i bought it when i was starting out, it did what it was supposed to (be cheap, play decently, and look like eric from the farewell gig - cherry red 8) )
now i have been playing a few years, it dosnt meet my needs, i have collected other guitars and i am looking to sell. doesnt mean it total crap, but it doesnt mean it is better than a 'higher end' guitar...
my 0.02p (im british - keep the pound)

"I'm talking about the "Elite" s?rie wich- I think- is different from the "Elitist" s?rie
The Elite were produced a few years ago (only for the japanese market, I believe) before the Elitiste serie, the head has the gibson open book shape."

Allow me to clarify! The Elites and Elitists are the same; the Elite range was launched but because another company (Ovation, I believe) had the rights to the name 'Elite' in the US, the range was changed to 'Elitist'. In Japan, the name remains 'Elite'.

Meanwhile, Rosetti in the UK ceased to import the range around the time of the name change, resulting in some ridiculous close-out deals on Elites here (not that I'm complaining on anything other than moral grounds; they're great guitars which are worth the cash but I wasn't going to object to saving nearly a grand on each of the two I bought...).

Regarding the headstock matter, the non-export Elites in Japan have the Gibson style headstock on models which are based on instruments that were originally made by Gibson, ie, the Les Pauls, SGs, the 'Dot' 335 and a couple of jazzers. Models such as the Casino, Riviera, Sheraton, etc, have the traditional Epi headstock because, hey, that's what they've always been!

I'm currently in a bit of a dilemma, as I have a Tokai ES-100 and am GASing for (yet) another semi; previously, I've said to people that Tokai has the edge for Gibson clones/copies, if for no other reason than the headstock issue (ie doesn't look 'wrong'!). However, the prospect of a sunburst Dot made to the exacting standards of the Epiphone Elite chaps in Japan, complete with 'proper' headstock is pretty tempting. US pick-ups, too, not that there's anything wrong with the ones on my ES-100. Ouch, my aching credit card....

ok, thanx for the infos :wink:
after all the elite are made where the orville were!