STEVE VAI.....guitarist or technician???......please read on

Hi people....I'm looking for feedback for a University research project I'm doing titled as above.....The question I'm posing is based on the development of guitarist's styles since the early 1970s up to Steve Vai. When I analyse Vai's technique I am left wondering if the guitarists of today (Satriani, Vai etc.) have become purely technicians due to the physical demands of the style, or do they still include in their playing the expressive, emotional, and melodic qualities guitarists such as say, the guys out of Wishbone Ash, Larry Carlton, Snuffy Walden, Jeff Beck etc. have displayed in their careers?.....I'd be interested in your views.....Oh!...By the way...yes, I own 2 beautiful early 80s Tokai Strats....Thanks for your time....Gary.

I'm a Wishbone Ash Nut and can't possibly comment in a fair way!!

ANDY POWELL KICKS ***!!!

Go to a guitar store and listen to what the next generation of guitarists are "playing". Just ask them what a II, V change is or what a I, VI, II, V turnaound is and you'll get the deer in the headlights stare from them.

It's all about shredding and peeling off the Mixiloxisupercalifragilisticexpealidocius scale fast as you can play it. There's no soul in it. It's like someone talking as fast as they can without taking a breath. Using that metaphor, a spoken conversation has highs, lows, differences in the inflection and timing but most importantly, it has pauses.

It takes alot more muscianship to play less and get away with it. Sure Vai, Satch, and the like are talented at what they do. But comparing Steve Vai to say Peter Green, David Gilmour, or even Angus Young, it's not apples to apples.

But that's just my humble opinion

It's a difficult question. To play fast, as in Vai, Gilbert, Vinnie Moore or whoever requires a technique that isn't about soul and feeling, but that's not to say these players don't have it. I'm sure some do and some don't.

For instance, I've been listening to some of Bruce Bouillett's playing recently, Bruce was Paul Gilbert's guitar partner in Racer-X. Now Racer-X are about as technical as a band gets, twin guitars at 10 million miles an hour, but some of Bruce's recent stuff has the afore mentioned soul and feeling in spades!

Steve Vai, who I'm not a huge fan of can slow down and get pretty soulful when he feels like it.

These are incredible musicians who have technique most of us can only dream of, that doesn't mean they are devoid of emotion, although I'm sure some of them are

Surely, Dave Gilmour, Peter Green are better at conveying emotion through their playing, but that's is their speciality, their style! I'm certain that Paul Gilbert ( a very versatile musician but unfortunately not a great songwriter) could do a lot better attempt at Gilmour style than Vice-Versa. That's not to say he's 'better' and there's no doubt that as specialists in their style Green & Gilmour are masters, but you get 'shredders' who are fully rounded musicians who can play with passion too.

gxm said:

I am left wondering if the guitarists of today (Satriani, Vai etc.) have become purely technicians due to the physical demands of the style.

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Yes!

Marcus summed it up very well. B.B.King's technique is probably terrible, but just listen to what the man can do with one note.....

Mike

The truly great technician is the one that knows how to apply that technique in the context of the song. John Petrucci is a fine example of this. He can be every bit as soulful as Gilmour, yet stamp it with his own style. Does that make him better than Gilmour? Certainly not, because at the end of the day they are both playing for the song...

...unless they are on a G3 tour 8)

Hi people thanks for the feedback, all very valid, so we seem to think that the pursuit of technical wizardry is being undertaken at the expense of the more expressive emotional aspects of musicianship?....I often wonder if some people think playing guitar is a competition? and yes...as for calling a chord by a number!!!!....well?....whatever next??....I posted this question on the Steve Vai website forum and the response there seems to be that all these 'billy whizz' guitarists DO play with feel and soul, I'm afraid after a short time exposed to their playing I find myself reaching for my 'Shangri-la' CD...so, do you think too much is made of technique??...

gxm said:

...as for calling a chord by a number!!!!....well?....whatever next??....

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You haven't heard of a 12 bar blues (or any similar 3 chord rock tune) being referred to as a I, IV, V progression?

Seriously? :-?

Hi John, i absolutely agree. Vai has some awesome emotive playing, i have seen him live a couple of times and he can play anything he wants any way he wants, actually you would be hard pressed to find a more complete guitarist.. :wink: {and i'm not really a big Vai fan}..same goes for Paul Gilbert....great player , he just digs the technical stuff.... I think everyone needs to remember its not all about the blues, what a boring place music would be without all its diversity.... :wink:

Mick

I agree Mick, it would be boring if everyone played the same!

You need to look past the 'shredding' to see how complete a player is, listen to Bruce Bouillett's playing with Bottom Dwellerz or his new solo album, or Nuno Bettencourt's solo material to hear how good some of these players really are.

Vai in my opinion does tend to get clever beyond musical, which tends to stop people relating to what he's playing, I personally find this boring after 5 minutes, but there are plenty of amazingly technical guitarists out there who can tug at the heart strings when playing, not just the old blues players.

Hi Stratman.....I was attempting Irony!......you could even throw in a II 7b before the V too!......if you wanted,...Anyway people, I realise that choosing Steve Vai as an example throws up problems, because of his incredible capability, but I feel that guitarists of the genre seem to put quantity before quality, I accept that playing super fast does not come easy, but I feel as though it says nothing other than 'look how fast I can play', Jan Akkerman was very fast but his playing was full of recognisable expression and feel....I just don't seem to hear it in the 'widdly widdly' playing of today, I think Gary Moore is another example of playing fast but still maintaining expressive quality....It's not about everybody playing the same Blues, but it is interesting that most of the 'feely' guitarists have a Blues background.

gxm, is this your first time on this forum or have you been here before under a different name?

Oh God, I hate Gary Moore more than anyone else. I hate to repeat myself, but he's not a blues player!

:evil:

I think this thread just started off with a bad example of a technician/shredder; Steve Vai has endless feel, plus (like Satriani) humour. I listen to both these guys as much as I listen to early Peter Green.

Vai and Satriani (I know less about Gibert et al) have awesome technique which they apply appropriate to the music - listen to Satch's 'Always With Me, Always With You' for the combination of feel expressed through melody and controlled technique.

Vai is a consumate showman and live, milks his 'flash' with humour to the delight of the audience.

The 'shredders' are a different breed, bore me senseless, and tend miss the point of the guitar as a musical instrument for expression.

BTW - until recently I played Need Your Love So Bad as part of my ex-band's set - if you haven't already, give that lead a go, it's a real test of restraint, feel and control.

JohnA said:

gxm, is this your first time on this forum or have you been here before under a different name?

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Hi John...I was registered under my full name but forgot my password so re=registered, tho' I never really got involved in the forum previously, thanks for your feedback, good stuff.....it's easy to get sidetracked on such a topic, of course technical ability is essential, but I feel some people put it top of their list and therefore compromise the more ethereal aspects of what they convey in their playing.....wouldn't you agree?

gxm said:

but I feel some people put it top of their list and therefore compromise the more ethereal aspects of what they convey in their playing.....wouldn't you agree?

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The bottom line is some people do & some dont, I think it takes elements of both to make a great player. and I would never say you could have too much technical ability. You can over-use it, yes, but generally 'chops' are a good thing!

stratman323 said:

Oh God, I hate Gary Moore more than anyone else. I hate to repeat myself, but he's not a blues player!

:evil:

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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Mike, you seem to be obsessed with hateing Gary Moore.... :lol:
There are also quite a lot of different interpretations for the "blues" and in the past we have heard his. {now breathe slowly and count to 10}

Mick

I saw a old Steve Vai Whitesnake video the other day and his solo was that EVH sort of style with whammy bars and tapping plus I 'd say sweep picking. Pretty fast and technical but didn't do much for me. I also listened to White Cliffs of Dover by Eric Johnson because I keep hearing about it and it's the same sort of thing. The trouble for me when I listen to these players is not their technical stuff it's that they don't seem to have much of a blues side to their playing and I can't really connect with it. And their playing tends to rave on and not get to a point. If you practise music theory and tapping and sweep picking and fast alternate picking etc etc (which I do) and you have a bit of talent then you can probably have a technique like Steve Vai but what you play with that technique is up to your musical taste and my musical taste is different from Steve Vai's or Eric Johnson's. EVH had a bit of blues in his playing because he grew up with all the 60s and 70s blues guitarists but I'm sure a lot of players after him don't know what the blues is about. And another thing is that the day after I heard Vai's solo and Johnsons solo I can't remember much about the solos. They just are not memorable solos like a lot of modern songs but I can remember great solos from the 60s and 70s right now. Like if I watch a Tool video it has the most forgettable melody possible and the video has plasticine figures in various stages of agony. This sort of thing is complete BS to me and happens when you totally run out of artistic ideas. Same goes for all the modern R&B which has nothing to do with stuff like Otis Redding, it's all just about sexual imagery or in Korn or Tools case weird imagery. I think they have no musical ideas and have to make it happen with over the top imagery to sell to the current young music buying generation.