Tokai Forum - a subsidiary of TokaiRegistry.com Forum Index
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Convince me... Why Tokai over a Gibson
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Tokai Forum - a subsidiary of TokaiRegistry.com Forum Index -> Tokai Guitars
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jacco
Guitar God


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 2871
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, the other way around (regarding vintage Tokai's)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
singemonkey
Guitar God


Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 222
Location: South Africa

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will agree that LP Customs, while having custom shop logos, don't seem to be made at the same level as the LP reissues. They seem much more similar to the factory models - poorly made... for the price they sell at. Yeah. Why a Nashville bridge?

Buying sight-unseen, you have a much better chance with a Tokai. Their consistency has been mentioned. In fact, I bought a premium Tokai unseen from diamond. Well, maybe he picked it out, but people have said that it's among the best LPs they've ever played in terms of resonance and tone.

But when you're coming down to individual guitars, there's not much you can say. You might still get a really great Gibson, or a not-so-toneful Tokai. The differences between individual guitars are much greater than the differences between brands - although a lot of Gibson USA models (and the Customs and 335s, but not the historics) that I've seen recently have had really shoddy finishing jobs (file marks on fretboards, hacked out binding etc); so the attention to detail is certainly noticeably better on almost every Tokai. But the actual tone and playability between two guitars is bigger than the difference between brands.

And speaking of the tone, I've heard bright, resonant Tokais, and very dark Tokais. No one can predict what a piece of wood is going to do, so they vary. So do Gibsons.

I'd go Tokai, because in the crap-shoot of ordering a guitar, you're likely to benefit from the culture of craftsmanship that exists at Tokai and seems to have been lost from Gibson outside their Historic division. Also because I don't like the way Gibson doesn't care about its customers. But otherwise it would be ideal to select the guitar based on playing. A lot of Gibsons are still fantastic guitars if you sort out the lousy QC, or you get one that was checked right after the first cup of coffee in the morning.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
luis
Guitar God


Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 2311
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems original Les Paul were brighter in a good way and I guess thatś what Tokai is trying to get, or maybe a better grade wood who knows.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bluesyrat
Guitar God


Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Posts: 395
Location: Latina, Italy

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 Luis
_________________
fusion music make me puke
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Paladin2019
Guitar God


Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: Cardiff, UK

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crimsonfire wrote:
I've seen videos on youtube where people were comparing the tone of stock Tokai's to that of a Gibson and the Tokai seems brighter. I think that people were comparing the Tokai LS models to the Gibson Les Paul standards.


Not a fair comparison unless they were using identical pickups. Which are easy enough to change on any guitar.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spikeymikey
Guitar God


Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 700

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jacco wrote:
Nope, the other way around (regarding vintage Tokai's)


+1.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Diamond
Guitar God


Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 1655
Location: ZA

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Convince me... Why Tokai over a Gibson Reply with quote

crimsonfire wrote:
Mick51 wrote:
Can't and won't address the question you've asked. Your mileage and experience, expectations, etc, won't match mine. Try them, play them, let your ears and your fingers and your mind make the decision. Only you know how you want a guitar to sound and play.

Then, let us know in six months or so what you chose, how it plays, and how satisfied you are. I'm always willing to consider another's experience.


Trust me, If I could try one firsthand, I would have. I wouldn't even bother posting this question here. I live in Los Angeles and NONE of my friends and NONE of their friends have a Tokai. In fact, they all snicker at the thought of some guitar called a Tokai being able to match or even be better than a Gibson.

Oh yeah, I'm also a lefty. Tell me, if you were a lefty, how easy would it be for you to find super quality lefty guitars to try out? It's not like I can walk into a Guitar Center, pick up a R8 and play it to my hearts content. So NO, I can't "Try them, play them, let your ears and your fingers and your mind make the decision."

This is why I'm asking those who have experience firsthand with Tokai's. I want to gather as much honest input/opinions as I can so that I can make the right decision for myself. The Tokai or Gibson will be the ONLY expensive guitar that I will ever buy.

I DON'T have multiple guitars like those of you here. In fact, I only have an Epiphone Les Paul Custom. I play for fun, I don't gig or anything like that, but I still want to have an excellent guitar, for my own personal enjoyment. The bedroom rocker.

I like the Les Paul Custom, and Tokai makes a version of this guitar. People who own them say that they are on par or better than Gibson's.
That's why I'm here, yeah, I have enough money to buy a Gibson, but if there is something better for a fraction of the price then I'm definitely going to consider it. I could careless about the name on the headstock. All I care about is the sound and quality. If the Tokai really does sound just as good, if not better than a Gibson, then my choice is an easy one to make.

I will ask again, why a Tokai over a Gibson?


I could write 10 pages of experiences I've had playing Tokais side by side with Gibsons and Fenders.
How about just today, playing Tokai TTE50 Teles up against the new Fender "Select" Tele models.
It's a joke, the "Selects" are about 3 times the price, it was a stalemate, there is no difference, the only difference we found is that the TTE50s were more mellow, warmer sounding.
No difference in quality, no difference in feel and playability...the price difference is the name on the headstock.
I wont mention the 'paper' shim we found in the neck joint of one of the "Selects".

I got 120 guitars from Tokai in one order.
I didn't find a flaw/defect on any one of them.
Every one had the potential to be setup perfectly...my guitar tech never spends more than 10 minutes setting up a Tokai...sometimes just 5 minutes.
In fact, I know of dozens of guitarists who have bought Tokais from music stores and never had them setup, they've gigged with them for years using the factory setup.

Try checking out 120 Gibsons...good luck, they'll keep a guitar tech busy for 6 months.
Just checking out a dozen or so in one store I've seen flaws ranging from uneven frets, badly cut nuts, nuts cut too low, file marks on the neck binding, rough fretboards, body binding not flush with the body, crooked tuner, areas not polished properly, filler visible around the neck joint, neck carve not rounded/finished properly...etc, etc.
All this on guitars that have hollowed out bodies and a low quality neck joint...2 invisible flaws right there.

Lets put it this way.
If Gibson contracted Tokai to make their Gibsons (like Fender did), you'd be reading on the internet about how Gibson quality has suddenly drastically improved.

Have you ever read a review of a MIJ Tokai that said the guitar didn't sound good?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
crimsonfire
Plucker


Joined: 04 Aug 2011
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Convince me... Why Tokai over a Gibson Reply with quote

Diamond wrote:
I could write 10 pages of experiences I've had playing Tokais side by side with Gibsons and Fenders.
How about just today, playing Tokai TTE50 Teles up against the new Fender "Select" Tele models.
It's a joke, the "Selects" are about 3 times the price, it was a stalemate, there is no difference, the only difference we found is that the TTE50s were more mellow, warmer sounding.
No difference in quality, no difference in feel and playability...the price difference is the name on the headstock.
I wont mention the 'paper' shim we found in the neck joint of one of the "Selects".

I got 120 guitars from Tokai in one order.
I didn't find a flaw/defect on any one of them.
Every one had the potential to be setup perfectly...my guitar tech never spends more than 10 minutes setting up a Tokai...sometimes just 5 minutes.
In fact, I know of dozens of guitarists who have bought Tokais from music stores and never had them setup, they've gigged with them for years using the factory setup.

Try checking out 120 Gibsons...good luck, they'll keep a guitar tech busy for 6 months.
Just checking out a dozen or so in one store I've seen flaws ranging from uneven frets, badly cut nuts, nuts cut too low, file marks on the neck binding, rough fretboards, body binding not flush with the body, crooked tuner, areas not polished properly, filler visible around the neck joint, neck carve not rounded/finished properly...etc, etc.
All this on guitars that have hollowed out bodies and a low quality neck joint...2 invisible flaws right there.

Lets put it this way.
If Gibson contracted Tokai to make their Gibsons (like Fender did), you'd be reading on the internet about how Gibson quality has suddenly drastically improved.

Have you ever read a review of a MIJ Tokai that said the guitar didn't sound good?


Diamond, you're a dealer right? Give it to me straight, no bs sales pitch or anything like that, how does the premium series lc200 compare to the vintage series lc107 when it comes to sound?

There's like a $1000 difference in price there. Is all of that just for the bling (1 piece vs 2 piece body and etc) or does that money actually translate into the lc200 having better sounds? That's all I really care about. They both have the same pickups right? If they both sound the same then I'll take the lc107. Like I said, no bs, give it to me straight between these two guitars.

Another thing, you probably don't have either of these guitars in stock for a lefty, but could you get me one? Also, If I choose the lc107, can you get me one with ebony fingerboard instead of the rosewood that comes with it? If you can get the guitars, PM me with the price and details.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
singemonkey
Guitar God


Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 222
Location: South Africa

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I can say for the LS models is that you're paying for diminishing returns. My LS150 is a beautiful sounding LP, but really, the difference between it and an LS93 is pretty minimal. Mostly you're paying for the chunk of body wood (and a flame top on some models) and the hardware and electronics - which you can mostly simply change out yourself.

The mid-ranged MIJs like Tokai Vintage range are really the greatest bang-for-buck. But saying that, a person likes what they like. I wanted all the vintagy stuff and got the LS150.

I was not disappointed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Johny642000
Guitar God


Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 196
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been very lucky with my premiums - I bought the LS145s from Japan when the GBP was still 2:1 vs the USD and brand new including all shipping and customs charges it cost me just ?770 - new in the UK today the same guitar woulkd cost me ?1300

My LC180s was second hand and I bought it over from Japan when the GBP was weak but got a good deal on it and paid ?880 including all shipping and customs charges - new today the same guitar would cost ?1400

Both are wonderful guitars and have that little something that you can't quite put your finger on which we call mojo or 'je ne sais quoi'...would I recommend them - yes, every time, would I buy them at today's prices....maybe....but probably not in the cuurent economic climate....

On the other hand my LS75Q (another good deal at ?400 NOS) is just a fantastic guitar and feels absolutely right in my hands at half the price of the premiums. It's colour is not to everyone's taste but this is a guitar that just feels so right in my hands that I would never ever part with it. The features you pay for on the premium models are those subtle things you appreciate over time, but even on the lower end MIJ vintage series you are getting a quality instrument which will be as good as you ever need it to be.

So I agree with Singemonkey about diminishing returns but you pay youir money and make your choice...but whatever you choose you will be getting a great guitar.....

Anyway, here's my premiums...



And here's my funny foam green LS75Q which I love and will never get rid of...

_________________
Johny642000
2007 LS145S
2006 LC180S
LS75Q, ES130, Breezysound, Hardpuncher
LC115S
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Diamond
Guitar God


Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 1655
Location: ZA

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:18 am    Post subject: Re: Convince me... Why Tokai over a Gibson Reply with quote

crimsonfire wrote:
Diamond wrote:
I could write 10 pages of experiences I've had playing Tokais side by side with Gibsons and Fenders.
How about just today, playing Tokai TTE50 Teles up against the new Fender "Select" Tele models.
It's a joke, the "Selects" are about 3 times the price, it was a stalemate, there is no difference, the only difference we found is that the TTE50s were more mellow, warmer sounding.
No difference in quality, no difference in feel and playability...the price difference is the name on the headstock.
I wont mention the 'paper' shim we found in the neck joint of one of the "Selects".

I got 120 guitars from Tokai in one order.
I didn't find a flaw/defect on any one of them.
Every one had the potential to be setup perfectly...my guitar tech never spends more than 10 minutes setting up a Tokai...sometimes just 5 minutes.
In fact, I know of dozens of guitarists who have bought Tokais from music stores and never had them setup, they've gigged with them for years using the factory setup.

Try checking out 120 Gibsons...good luck, they'll keep a guitar tech busy for 6 months.
Just checking out a dozen or so in one store I've seen flaws ranging from uneven frets, badly cut nuts, nuts cut too low, file marks on the neck binding, rough fretboards, body binding not flush with the body, crooked tuner, areas not polished properly, filler visible around the neck joint, neck carve not rounded/finished properly...etc, etc.
All this on guitars that have hollowed out bodies and a low quality neck joint...2 invisible flaws right there.

Lets put it this way.
If Gibson contracted Tokai to make their Gibsons (like Fender did), you'd be reading on the internet about how Gibson quality has suddenly drastically improved.

Have you ever read a review of a MIJ Tokai that said the guitar didn't sound good?


Diamond, you're a dealer right? Give it to me straight, no bs sales pitch or anything like that, how does the premium series lc200 compare to the vintage series lc107 when it comes to sound?

There's like a $1000 difference in price there. Is all of that just for the bling (1 piece vs 2 piece body and etc) or does that money actually translate into the lc200 having better sounds? That's all I really care about. They both have the same pickups right? If they both sound the same then I'll take the lc107. Like I said, no bs, give it to me straight between these two guitars.

Another thing, you probably don't have either of these guitars in stock for a lefty, but could you get me one? Also, If I choose the lc107, can you get me one with ebony fingerboard instead of the rosewood that comes with it? If you can get the guitars, PM me with the price and details.


I haven't tried an LC200.
But I can tell you the LC98 all mahogany wine red custom sounds fantastic.

You'll be better off ordering one from a dealer/distributor in your country.
I try avoid ordering one off custom made guitars.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
voiprodrigo
Plucker


Joined: 10 Nov 2011
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can only contribute to the "consistency" argument against Gibson. When I decided to buy a LP guitar, initially I dealt with a UK shop where I had done business before for Fender guitars. Initially went with a Gibson LP Studio. Returned due to defect. The decided to upgrade to a Gibson LP Standard, 2010 edition. Returned due to defect. Another Gibson LP Standard came. Returned, due to defect. I gave up and learned my lesson: never buy a Gibson sight unseen (or from that dealer, but that's not relevant). I wanted a good LP and didn't have the possibility to try a bunch in a shop. After that I went with Tokai. Bought a LS1-R8, and it's a great LP, as I expected. I will buy Tokai sight unseen again in the future. When possible, they'll have my business for a Tele and ES type guitars. Or maybe the Tele I'll buy Fender Japan :p
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Tokai Forum - a subsidiary of TokaiRegistry.com Forum Index -> Tokai Guitars All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group