Springy ST-60, some expert comments would be appreciated

I sincerely hope I posted this in the right section.

For once I have a life time opportunity to see/try out a Springysound before buying it (these are VERY rare in Sweden and getting quite expensive these days), since the seller happens to be situated in my own town. Too me these pics looks legitimate, but I would like to hear some expert comments on this one, before I visit the seller.

I might mail him for a serial number (at least first half) and if "60" is inked on the fetboard, but apart from that: Do you guys recknognize any immidiate issues with this one, judging from the pics included in the ad?: Every little comment is velcome here, since all the fake ads I've read about here really freaks me out. What's the things I'd be checking out to be certain that this is the real deal when holding it?


"Tokai Springy Sound, ST-60, 1979. Original. Two piece ash body with very nice grain, sunburst, rosewoodboard, E-pickups. Japanese tweedcase is included."





Personally I love three tone bursts on a strat. My black Goldstar (although it's not completely original) is great, but the grain on this one gave me some serious and very unhealthy GAS.

Another question: I've understood that U and E pups were Tokai variations, but both made by DiMarzio..? What's the actual difference between these?

Thanks in advance, forums like this is the answer to why internet is necessary!

Guitar looks fine to me!

A '79 ST60 should have E pickups, most peoples favourites, personally I prefer U's but that's just taste, the E's are good, vintage voiced pickups, just a bit bright IMO.

Looks fine to me, too, and you're obviously in a great position to check it out. If the 60 is on the fretboard it would be stamped rather than inked. Unfortunately a lot of the really solid evidence is going to be internal rather than external ? pickup routing and the marks in the routes and so on.

Unless the seller is happy for you take it apart there and then, you'll probably need to decide at some point whether you trust him and the guitar's story.

It looks good so far.

JohnA said:

Guitar looks fine to me!

A '79 ST60 should have E pickups, most peoples favourites, personally I prefer U's but that's just taste, the E's are good, vintage voiced pickups, just a bit bright IMO.

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Thanks for the answer. On my Goldstar the pups were changed to Fender Noiseless before I got it, would be interesting to compare. If it's vintage voiced that sounds fine to me, I have a Kramer for the "modern" sounds (and also a Tokai SG -01 that I love dearly. It whips many Gibson's IMHO).

BlueThird said:

If the 60 is on the fretboard it would be stamped rather than inked. Unfortunately a lot of the really solid evidence is going to be internal rather than external ? pickup routing and the marks in the routes and so on.

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My bad, I mixed up the actual words "stamped" and "inked" here (I tend to do that in my swenglish..). And of course you're right, you always would like to see what's beneath the pick guard to be safe, since those evidence is something that mostly make an important difference between fake and real. I just hope I don't have to get that far, when negotiating with the seller.

Well, I can't wait until I've tried this one out!

It looks fine to me. It's pre 1980 if it has the fretboard stamp, & the headstock plug confirms that - by late 1980 those had gone, as on my 1980 ST60, which is otherwise very similar.





ST60s could come with either Es or Us - we've seen both. Mine has Es, though you're better off with Us, IMHO. Us tend to read around 6k, Es around 5.5k, neither were made by Dimarzio, apparently, despite popular belief. The trouble with Es isn't that they're weak but that they're rather brittle sounding. Yet some people love them. Personally I don't, & I changed them on my ST80.

It looks like a nice centre joined 2 piece figured sen body, just like mine. If you love Sunburst, it's perfect to have it over a nicely figured wood like old sen.

But unless you see under the scratchplate before you buy, who knows what's under there..... :-?

Let us know if you get it.

Mike

PS If it's an original Tokai tweed case, that's probably worth a few $s too.

stratman323: Of course you've heard this many times before, but here we go agan: Amazing grain on that strat, Christina Hendricks (the redhead goddess from tv-series Mad Men) would envy that body! Very beautiful!

Back to topick: I mailed the seller, and asked for a serial nr and if "60" was stamped on the fretboard. His reply was: No stamp on fretboard, but ST-60 is visible at the end of the neck if you separate it (as it is on my Goldie). Ok, I thought.

BUT, no serial nr on the neckplate.. "That might've been changed". Why would anyone change a neckplate? Apart from changing to a neckplate with fake id, maybe. But change to a blank? Maybe the neck was changed sometime, and this plate was put on 'cause nobody cared back in the days? I don't know, but I do know:

A guitar without serial nr is not worth the serious amount of money that the seller asks for, be it the real deal or not. I've already gave him a lower figure than he requested, and told him that I was prepared to show up with cash in my hand, if I just could look and try the guitar out first. He didn't even respond to that, only about the issues with serial nr and the "60" stamp.

I would of course be glad to hear your valueble inputs on this. If I really KNEW it was the real deal, and that I never, ever would sell it, this situation would of course be different. As it seems now, I think I have to let this one go.

3rdstone said:

A guitar without serial nr is not worth the serious amount of money that the seller asks for, be it the real deal or not...

As it seems now, I think I have to let this one go.

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Correct. If it's not quite what you want, then don't pay silly money for it, there will be another.

JVsearch said:

3rdstone said:

A guitar without serial nr is not worth the serious amount of money that the seller asks for, be it the real deal or not...

As it seems now, I think I have to let this one go.

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Correct. If it's not quite what you want, then don't pay silly money for it, there will be another.

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Totally! I have picked up a ST50 and ST100 both for buttons this year, Bide your time you WILL get your Tokai.

JVsearch said:

3rdstone said:

A guitar without serial nr is not worth the serious amount of money that the seller asks for, be it the real deal or not...

As it seems now, I think I have to let this one go.

Click to expand...

Correct. If it's not quite what you want, then don't pay silly money for it, there will be another.

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You're absolutely right about not paying silly money for something that might not be correct. No one should do that, esp since this is not a higher end Springy.

I just hate the fact that I most likely never ever will have the chance to try a Springy like this out at the sellers home again, before buying it (without travelling through the whole country). In my hometown in north Sweden there's about 110 000 people, how many of these might be (japanese vintage) Tokai owners willing to sell? :wink:

Well, back to the internet ads from the other side of the globe. Checking out ads with vintage Tokai's is a dirty work, but someone has to do it.

Strange that somebody should change the neckplate on what seems like an otherwise original Springy.

:-?

Looks like this one made it all the way to the USA:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380239291496&_trksid=p2759.l1259

This must be a '77 or early '78, with the blank neck plate.

Has anyone confirmed a neck pocket serial number stamp?

Did the very early Springies with the narrow neckplates have a serial on the neckplate? Never seen one in the flesh myself... as this one is early enough to have the st-60 stamped in the butt of the neck rather than on the last fret, could it be a narrow neckplate model?

Early 77 and 78 models had narrow neck plate with no serial on it, and the serial was a 7 digit ink stamp either in the neck pocket or on the back of the butt of the neck.

I asked the seller for pics and about the serial, I got picks but nothing on the serial as yet.

Looks legit to me though.

blake375 said:

Did the very early Springies with the narrow neckplates have a serial on the neckplate? Never seen one in the flesh myself... as this one is early enough to have the st-60 stamped in the butt of the neck rather than on the last fret, could it be a narrow neckplate model?

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From my 1978 ST60 Springy (narrow neck plate):

Nice pics.
I was able to verify that it is a 78 by the neck stamped serial number.