Tokai or Fakai ?

[AlanN]

I think the clue's in his name. Please do not feed the troels.

except for the spelling but even that doesn't change the fact that Tokais are fakes and cheaper than Gibsons and Fenders... and people who can afford it buy the real stuff... right???

I have both. A good guitar is a good guitar. A good guitar for half the price of another one is a bargain. Call them what you like though!

There's maybe as much inverse snobbery over how little people can buy tokais etc for as there is snobbery at how much their Gibson/Fender equivalents cost, but if you care more about what it says on the headstock than how it feels and sounds, try collecting stamps.

Anyway, the Fender Strat has a fake Bigsby headstock, and the Les Paul has a fake Bigsby body!

 

[Anonymous]

that doesn't change the fact that Tokais are fakes and cheaper than Gibsons and Fenders... and people who can afford it buy the real stuff... right???

The trouble with you, Troels, is that you don't bother to read what other people write! Along with many other people on here, I own both Fenders & Gibsons as well as Tokais. I will probably sell my Gibson LP Special soon because I prefer my Tokai LR Goldtop.

And I have searched for years to find another Strat that is as good as my magnificent 1986 Fender US62RI. The closest I have come is my 1980 ST80 - that's how good it is. I can afford Fenders, I own Fenders, but still I love my Tokais - is that so hard for you to understand?

The other thing I have noticed is that if I do a gig with my Custom Shop Strat, nobody ever comments on it. If I play a Tokai, it tends to create interest - I have had people approach me in the break to ask me about it, or to tell me that they own/used to own a Tokai. This surprised me, but that's what has happened. Tokai isn't seen as a "cheap" brand, by those in the know it's seen more as a cult brand.

If you don't want to believe any of this, fine, but just repeating "Tokais are all fakes" is becoming boring now, & is rather childish. Why don't you go and play your large collection of "real" Gibsons & Fenders instead?

 

[leadguitar_323]

I tell you what Troels, you obviously know nothing about what you are talking about..If you want a real "fake try looking at www.musoland.com.cn , they are all fakes. What Tokai do is make Replica's of Gibbo's and if Gibbo made better quality guitars at reasonable prices then i'd own heaps of them. I have never owned a good LP {thats a real one, just so you don't get confused} and i have had quite a few, actually the only good gibbo i ever owned was an SG. If gibson didn't produce so many crap guitars {especially the norlin era} then there probably wouldn't be as many replicas, same for the "cbs Fenders of the 70's, and before you start crying poor again, both companies fluked a few good ones in this time but quite by accident as they were only purely making guitars for profit. They are being shown up by the Japanese manufacturers simply because the Japanese take pride in their work as their reputation is more important than profit. If you know as much as you think you do you would already know this which makes your "opinions" worthless. Do yourself a favour and do some research and stop speaking sh1t....

Mick

 

[Donkey Oaty]

that doesn't change the fact that Tokais are fakes and cheaper than Gibsons and

An LS320 and LS230 are both more expensive then a Gibson.

and people who can afford it buy the real stuff... right???

Yeah sure,

I'm worth a few bob and I always buy Tokai's




I hope you enjoy the food :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Troels, what guitar(s) do you play?

I saw this one earlier, & I thought those of you who own inferior Tokai LPs would like to see the standard of body wood matching used on real Gibsons:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280246673446&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123

Look at that beautiful join just under the control knobs - don't y'all wish Tokai could do invisible matching like that?

:lol:

 

[CliffsGuitarWorld]

stratman323 wrote: I thought those of you who own inferior Tokai LPs would like to see the standard of body wood matching used on real Gibsons:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280246673446&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123

Look at that beautiful join just under the control knobs - don't y'all wish Tokai could do invisible matching like that?

That's why I sold all my Gibby's... except for my 1961 and 1963..

 

[marcusnieman]

Troels, what guitar(s) do you play?

I saw this one earlier, & I thought those of you who own inferior Tokai LPs would like to see the standard of body wood matching used on real Gibsons:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280246673446&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123

Look at that beautiful join just under the control knobs - don't y'all wish Tokai could do invisible matching like that?

:lol:

Well to be fair, I've held a Tokai LP Special that had a piece that small joined on each of the upper bouts and then another down near the control knobs.

 

[Troels]

Troels, what guitar(s) do you play?

I saw this one earlier, & I thought those of you who own inferior Tokai LPs would like to see the standard of body wood matching used on real Gibsons:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280246673446&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123

Look at that beautiful join just under the control knobs - don't y'all wish Tokai could do invisible matching like that?

:lol:

I have had many guitars over the years... these days I play an ES-330T from 1960, a 2001 335, a 1977 and 1980 Strats, a 2007 LP Studio a 1996 Epiphone Sheraton and a 1998 Strat Classic ('62).

Don't forget how I started: Tokais are finely crafted guitars... and that I've owned two very fine ones - a golden strat saying "This is an excat replica of the fine old Strat" right next to the spaghetti logo. The other one - slightly newer - was a Sunburst and I've recorded excellently with both as well.

And that's exactly what it's not all about - it was just about using the phrase Tokai fake... And nobody has convienced me yet that Tokai are genuine designs. They are STOLEN for god sake and everybody knows that - maybe except a few here.

I personally prefer original things - guitars, cars ore whatever - but people can buy whatever they like and they are free to believe as well that theirs are the absolutely best on Earth. I really don't mind - for me it was a little detail about using correct words for given thing - but of course things like that cannot be said in a crowd of strongly believing people who simply collectively (almost) deny a simple fact. Show a little respect for the people who did the original designs and not for the Japanes that flooded Europe with cheap crap guitars during the 60s and went on copying everything from the west.

Tokais are NOT genuine design. It IS stolen from American designers. And Tokais are a lot cheaper that Fenders and Gibsons - but still they finely crafted guitars (most of them).

Correct that Fender stole the head stock fro Bigsby - but already in 15th century gut guitars was build with six in a line pegheads. The discussion here is more about well oranized, industrialezed theft of western design.

I do btw think that the Talbo - the original alu bodied Tokai guitar - is one the most interesting guitars in newer times. And that's an original design.

And talking about matching wood you can see Tokai is learning: http://cgi.ebay.com/TOKAI-LOVE-ROCK-LES-PAUL-QUILTED-TOP_W0QQitemZ270255829690QQihZ017QQcategoryZ38086QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Still it's not exactly the most bright idea to find examples of guitars with not so matching wood pieces (it takes just about two minutes no matter the brand to find one) - as pictures of that don't prove anything about quality at all. It's more interesting to link to pictures of beautiful guitars made of beautiful wood...

 

[brokentoes]

Maybe something got lost in translation somewhere. That's why music's so wonderful, sometimes there are not words for the thought / feelings you have, think i'm going to fire up my tube amp and plug into my real Tokai.

Peace , BROKENTOES

 

[Troels]

Maybe something got lost in translation somewhere. That's why music's so wonderful, sometimes there are not words for the thought / feelings you have, think i'm going to fire up my tube amp and plug into my real Tokai.

Peace , BROKENTOES

I DO agree

 

[Rossi]

Like i said So all cars are fakes are they as in your own words ( are a stolen design) what from a model T-ford :-? .What has happend with Tokai as with cars they just made them better Its the word Fake thats the problem here,the right word is copy :wink: not Fake copies there is a BIG difference.

 

[Anonymous]

these days I play an ES-330T from 1960, a 2001 335, a 1977 and 1980 Strats, a 2007 LP Studio a 1996 Epiphone Sheraton and a 1998 Strat Classic ('62)

A 77 Strat? :lol: Sorry, I shouldn't laugh, but it seems that you would rather pay for the name than for quality. I have never yet tried a 70s Fender that would compare favourably with a Goldstar! Fender didn't start making guitars properly again till 82 when they introduced the vintage re-issue series (as a response to the Springy). In 1980, the only proper Strat (ie vintage spec) available was the Springy.

I would compare my ST80 to an 80s Fender RI, while I'm confident that most Goldstar ST50s would wipe the floor with most 70s Fenders (with their nasty thick poly finish). But if you would sooner pay extra for the name, you go ahead. :lol:

 

[Troels]

these days I play an ES-330T from 1960, a 2001 335, a 1977 and 1980 Strats, a 2007 LP Studio a 1996 Epiphone Sheraton and a 1998 Strat Classic ('62)

A 77 Strat? :lol: Sorry, I shouldn't laugh, but it seems that you would rather pay for the name than for quality. I have never yet tried a 70s Fender that would compare favourably with a Goldstar! Fender didn't start making guitars properly again till 82 when they introduced the vintage re-issue series (as a response to the Springy). In 1980, the only proper Strat (ie vintage spec) available was the Springy.

I would compare my ST80 to an 80s Fender RI, while I'm confident that most Goldstar ST50s would wipe the floor with most 70s Fenders (with their nasty thick poly finish). But if you would sooner pay extra for the name, you go ahead. :lol:

Actually the 1977 Strat is Okay - a bit heavy but it has a very pronounced sustain and does sound great. the one from 1980 is "The Strat" - the first result of a quality lift at Fender after the end of the 70s... I don't use the 1977 very often and the 1980 - almost never. I play the Gibsons alomost exclusively. The days I'm relesing a CD with Shadows tunes an songs played in the Style of Hank. And that's the 77 Strat all the way.

 

[Anonymous]

Well if that's what floats your boat. Even The Strat was generally seen by Dan Smith & his team as a sort of halfway house before the introduction of the vintage re-issues - the first decent Strats made by Fender since the mid 60s.

So - "real" Strats. What is "real" to you? Just US made Strats? Or do you count the ones made in Mexico? India? Indonesia? China? Is everything "real" if it says Fender on the headstock? Are the Fender Japan Strats made by Tokai real?

 

[brokentoes]

What would happen if it said "fender" Or "gibson" or whatever on the guitar but was not made by that company... Would you call that a fake ?? I know I would.

 

[marcusnieman]

What would happen if it said "fender" Or "gibson" or whatever on the guitar but was not made by that company... Would you call that a fake ?? I know I would.

The current Fender Japan strats are made in the Tokai factory. What does that make them other than brothers of different mother?

 

[MIJvintage]

I think the clue's in his name. Please do not feed the troels.

except for the spelling but even that doesn't change the fact that Tokais are fakes and cheaper than Gibsons and Fenders... and people who can afford it buy the real stuff... right???

In 2006, I gave Fender USA ONE LAST opportunity to impress upon me that the quality of their guitars were worthy of my hard earned dollars.

I purchased 5 NEW Fender USA Strats in 2006, and one used 2005 Fender USA Strat.
1. NEW - 57 Reissue
2. NEW - 62 Reissue
3. NEW - Jeff Beck Strat
4. NEW - Eric Johnson Strat - EJ00179
5. NEW - Eric Johnson Strat - EJ00761
6. Used 2005 - Eric Johnson Strat - EJ00095

To put it bluntly, NONE of the guitars proved to be worthy, sold them all, and will likely never again purchase an American made guitar.

I have an early '80s Tokai Goldstar Sound that put(s) each & everyone of those six Fenders, to shame.
http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=8040
So, to answer your question, "and people who can afford it buy the real stuff... right???," the answer is NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ...........

 

[brokentoes]

Sorry, i meant to say guitars that bore a certain brand name that were not produced by that company nor by it's authorised sub-contractors.

 

[leadguitar_323]

Real stuff..!! What a joke. I'm with you Rich, i'll buy and use what i know is better and definitely not based on price, Quality all the way. :wink:

Mick

 

[Troels]

What would happen if it said "fender" Or "gibson" or whatever on the guitar but was not made by that company... Would you call that a fake ?? I know I would.

In the 80s or maybe 90s epiphone made some Japanese ES style guitars that said Epiphone by Gibson... I did not consider that genuine Gibson.

And what is "genuine genuine"... so to speak. Well from a copyright point of view the case is more than clear: Fenders are genuine design Tokais are not.

And to stratman: Let's say you invented a new excveptional frying pan... and after a while I made one exactly the same and began to sell it and even earned a lot of money. Which one of the frying pans would you consider geuine or real ??? You own you spend hours to design or the one I copied and earned a lot of (yor...) money on??? I do think that nails it.

And maybe we should close this discussion here