This or that???

[OrvilleBoy]

Hi newbie here. I bought a '94 Orville LP std last week and its a dream! For the money to buy a new gibson, I now have enough to buy a second Japanese guitar! sweet......

Anyway what do u guys think? I am considering between

a Tokai 2005 (serial 05.....) love rock Junior DC and

a Orville by Gibson '89 les paul Junior DC

the ObG i would need to order from overseas, the Tokai i could walk over there and buy tomorow morning. the ObG is bout $75- $100 more expensive.

Is there much diffrence between the two? so ObG is more prestigeous? but that's not high on my criteria list really... oh and the two guitars are in their original state. The ObG has been played, the Tokai untouched. I heard guitars sometimes can be better if already 'played in' abit like shoes that are 'worn in' and therefore more comfortable??

And also, Would having two Les Pauls (ie my Orv. LP std, and this potential LP Jr) be redundant in terms of functionality? I could buy a '95 MIUSA fender tele for the same price as the above ObG, so maybe i could get more variety out of have two diff brands (ie a fender and a orv. and not orv. and ObG or Tokai? ? Does anyone know how a tele compares to a junior? preferences??

sorry but I've not owned many guitars before i'm still only a student working a casual job so i dont know anything first hand!

Thanks for any feedback

 

[Rigid Digit]

I have a Tokai Les paul Junior double cut and a Tele. Its one of my favourite guitars. I could'nt comment on the Orville one as I've never seen one. Though I have played a real 1960 Gibson and the Tokai was pretty close in terms of its very chunky neck profile.

Juniors are very different guitars to Les paul Standards, they P90 pickup makes them a lot less smooth and trebly, but in a good way. They sound like a high output warmer Tele with lots of midrange. For an idea of how they sound I'd check out any New York Dolls or the first Clash album. Also the Who "Live at Leeds", though thats an SG with P90's.

I would try a Tele as well, but Fenders and Gibsons play pretty differently, due to different scale lengths, frets, fingerboard radius. You would have a neck pickup on the Tele obviously and it probably will sound better clean than the Jr. The Junior is a better rock guitar than the Tele though.

 

[OrvilleBoy]

yeah thanks thats made it clearer then, i will cross the tele off the list now so its really just between the two juniors for me... i just dunno whether an 89 ObG junior is worth more money and effort to order from overseas than a 05 Tokai junior that is close by.

I at one stage considered a gibson melody maker from the 60s. there are plenty of those lying around the place going for about 1000USD... but i dont have enough info about them, unlike MIJ guitars described in this forum. I just heard that gibsons in the 60s were wellmade and melody makers are great for rock music. but i'm starting to get abit anti-gibson because their guitars are too expensive. i also heard the 60s melody makers were made in michigan, which is pretty cool. but not enough to win me over!

 

[hans-j?rgen]

Another good example of current P-90 sound would be Green Day, because the singer uses a Gibson Les Paul Junior (?).

I'm not sure if an Orville has a "better name" because of the Gibson connection, it probably depends on the part of world you live in.

 

[OrvilleBoy]

yeah theres a guy here selling a gibson les paul jr and he uses greenday as his selling point so yeah. its a tabbaco sunburst 2002. for 1700AUS

when i bought my orville, i hadnt heard of them before at all, i knew nothing about MIJs. i had a pretty beaten up greco lp std(tobacco), ObG lp custom (black, i found it ugly ), and an Orv. lp std to choose from and i choose the Orv because it was in cherry sunburst (favourite!) and i'm not good enough to tell the tone/sound difference in either three anyway so yeah.

later on i felt that whenever i find an ad for Orville guitars, the Gibson factor is hit pretty hard home. As if they were USA gibsons but someone painted the wrong name on the headstock by accident. it prolly depends on how well the name 'gibson' sells.

 

[OrvilleBoy]

I went to the shop today to pick up the Tokai Junior DC TV yellow I wanted, since last night i made up my mind that this would be better than ordering something from the states (ObG Junior) for more money, and not neccessarily more quality...

however when i got there the owner told me that an Orville Junior TV yellow is coming in a week and i could have it for the same price as the Tokai , around 750US (1000 AUS). so really i'm back to where i'm started.... the choices are the same as before, but now there will be two guitars to pick up immediately if i wanted them. The Orville is a played '88 DC TVYellow that is not modified, and the Tokai is 2005 brand new untouched unmodified mint DC TVYellow.........

please, all feedback would be good, what would u guys do if u were in my position? thanks!

 

[bigmike]

Well it sounds like a win/win situation. Now you have two guitars to choose from - an Orville or the Tokai, same type and basically the same paint... Cool !!

So wait until the Orville comes in and go there with your amp (smart move taking YOUR amp) and play them both. WHY YOUR AMP, think about it, what will you be playing the guitar through when you get it home, YOUR AMP... So this way you really know the one you decide on will rock your world...

Like the old Lovin' Spoonful song:

"Did you ever have to make up your mind
To pick up on one and leave the other behind
It's not often easy, and not often kind
Did you ever have to make up your mind"

 

[OrvilleBoy]

yeah i went back today and got him to hold the Tokai for me til the Orville gets in and i can try both and see! hopefully i'll make the right decision. I also played the Tokai for the first time in my life. compared to my orville lp std, god it was soooooo edgy.... felt like a monster on a leash... dunno if it's the guy's amp or the pickups (u're right, i'll bring my own amp in next time). it's probably compared to the thickness and smoothness of the lp std.

i can imagine something like the solo from Brown Sugar ripping it up.

should be a good buy for rock n roll!!!!

but hey if anyone has played both or would strongly recommend / oppose one of them, please let me know! cheers alot u guys've been great help

 

[Rigid Digit]

Be prepared to back off the tone control to maybe 6 or 7, this will tame the rawness. This works well on a Teles bridge pickup too.

I think the pickup in the Tokai is its weakest point, its quite low output for a P90 and lacks character but thats easily changed. The Orville should have a Gibson pickup in it if thats a help.

Keith Richards has used Juniors in the past, they suit the Stones sound really well.

 

[OrvilleBoy]

finally got it...

i chose the Orville LP DC tvyellow over the Tokai ditto. Here are the differences i observed when playing them thru the same amp.

1. The orville was lighter than the tokai. AAAAALOT lighter! never held a gibby junior, but the owner said the orville is about the same. it must be about 2ish kilos! the tokai was almost as heavy as my Orville LP std.

2. The best way to describe the tone of the two guitars... well the Orville was a muscular punch while the Tokai was a sharpish bite... like getting a backhand from a grizzley or a bite from a viper...

3. I thought I felt a difference in the necks? I didnt really look properly, but the orville i was more used to, after playing my orv. LP std a lot i guess.

4. Looks were the same, cept the Orville had thinner paint... i could see the texture/pattern of the timber under the yellow. The tokai seemd to be covered more thickly... cant be the cause of the weight problem right?

5. I was still tempted to get the Tokai, really just because of the name... shoot me down but TOKAI sounds really awesome and aesethics are important to me!.... it means something like the Sea of the Orient or something??? mad.............. I was told Orville makes popcorn in the USA?

6. Other things, well the Orville was made in 1996 and has a few dents and fretwear... the Tokai brand new untouched from 2005... i didnt mind either

7. So yeah that's it... Orville over Tokai... i'll post some pics but yeah i guess that relegates me to the 'Others' forum eh!!

thanks for the advice

 

[sneakyjapan]

grizzlies in Australia?
doubt you`d have any more worries if you came across a grizzly...especially if they were feeding, or protecting their young. Recently saw a tv show on some dangerous insects and snakes you guys have down there... man some of them spiders were scary...and not rare but the sound of it.

 

[OrvilleBoy]

oh yeah well i lived in vancouver for a while so i heard bout grizzleys all the time... i dunno if the stories are true or not though...

yeah here we got some bad things here, especially in the outback... snakes are scary things we were camping and ran into one at night we had to kill it or we couldnt sleep properly... that was effing scary........ haha

 

[sneakyjapan]

well grizzlies are clever and man eaters so not sure what you heard but a couple of years ago there was a story on the web about one that had killed a couple of hikers and it was found and shot... a ranger emptied his revolver and his 12 gauge shotgun into it before it fell. There were pics of it nect to him and the bears head was huge... I read they had it stuffed and it`s now in an Alaskan airport, you now to welcome visitors. They said when it stood up, it was as tall as the roof of a bungalow...

 

[OrvilleBoy]

well i was told that if u were chased by a grizzley ur best bet would be to play dead but then it'd come over and try and bury you and you may get killed that way... either way u're screwwwwwwwed......

 

[sneakyjapan]

yeah I`ve heard the same thing, but instinct would make me flee however they can outrun humans so that would be pointless. Playing dead is evidently the best thing, they may maul you a bit but if you appear to be no threat they are supposed to lose interest. But just between you and me...I never want to test that theory.

 

[OrvilleBoy]

ya well i couldnt imagine getting myself into that situation.... unless in a plane crash over north america or something...

oh yeah the tokai i didnt buy is for sale

http://www.tymguitars.com.au/forsale_guitars_TokaiLPjr.htm

Tym's also got a load of Grecos (Rics, LP std, LP jnr, etc.) , i was tempted to buy a LP std Tobaccoburst for 700AUS it's one from the 70s and it looked sweet...