Hi. New Guy

[Ozeshin]

Thanks for the link Hans.....even though those dealers are in a different state to me...at least it's the same country :lol:

 

[Walnut]

see above

 

[JSD]

Those do look pretty bad, I'm glad that our MIK Tokais here in Canada are made in a different factory then those UK models.

 

[Clay]

Those are similar problems I encountered when I purchased a MIK Epiphone Les Paul. I wonder if they are made in the same factory? The distributor offered a replacement instrument but I was so disappointed with the quality that I ended up trading the guitar for a nice used ESP Strat at the guitar show.

 

[mike martin]

hi walnut
just been to my local guitar shop
i checked several mik loverocks, es, sg's and the all seem to have the same problem . but not quite as severe , but i have to say that from the front . the pegs all line up properly with the nut also some of the gibbo lp's are the same it always seems to be the middle tuner that is slighly out of line. maybe its something to do with the shape of the headstock
that the have to be positioned like that
here are a couple of pics of my 1985 ls70, sold that one last week
also 2003 and 2004 loverocks all japanese all withe the same problem. altho must admit i never noticed it before until you brought it up
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/mike_martin_/IMG_0053.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/mike_martin_/IMG_0047.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/mike_martin_/IMG_0049.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/mike_martin_/DSC_2790.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/mike_martin_/DSC_2690.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/mike_martin_/DSC_2691.jpg

 

[tudor]

... since Walnut posted I kept on searching to prove my statement, but in vain ... I don't know where I have read it recently ...

I've read an article, I think on the LPF (??), concerning the different tuners of Gibbos ... There was a time when they used to set the tuners in line exactly following the edge of the headstock ...
But this expert wrote in his article that they had run out of tune very often and that the "tuners-not-in-exact-line" means that it is the "real historic shape" of an old Gibbo-headstock!!!
I took a look on my '85 Tokai LS150 and what could I see ??? They aren't exactly in line too!!! OK - not so extremely out of line as on Walnut's guitar ... but they are ... :-?

You can check it:
http://ruediger-albrecht.medion-fotoalbum.de/

This expert also wrote that - to get the right tension of the strings and to avoid breakage - it was the wrong decision to mount the tuners orienting towards the - open-book - headstock!

You can believe me or not ... I will find it somewhere along the way ... :wink:

Roger

 

[Walnut]

Sorry for having to pull my posts but In view of some new information given to me this afternoon I believe the dealer I obtained the guitar from to be selling repaired and B stock without informing the buyer.


I was told that legal action was started against this seller by another buyer on Thursday of this week.
So to prevent any possible legal wrangles for the owners of this site I decided it best to remove any of the comments I had made.


But the debate regarding the MIK machineheads in general should carry on.

 

[togps]

Hmmh, I don't know walnut, now after your posting, which emoticons I should use.

This:

or this:

??

Here is no censorship. Is'nt it?

 

[Walnut]

Here is no censorship. Is'nt it?

True. But common sense should prevail in any ongoing legal case.

 

[Ozeshin]

Any discussions regarding the dealer or the distributor could be seen by a court to be subjudicy but so long as we are discussing the tuner issue as a general topic we'll be fine.

 

[Walnut]

we are discussing the tuner issue as a general topic we'll be fine.

I would like to expand on that by asking why B-Stock guitars are not marked as B-Stock in same way ?

I believe Gibson used to put a stamp on the back of the headstock showing that they were B-Stock and Fender note down the serial numbers of B-Stock guitars so they can be traced back.

Because MIK Tokai's have no serial numbers ( mine dont ) it is down to the honesty of the dealer. I have found two Guitar Dealers who seem to be upfront.

http://www.holidaymusic.co.uk/Catalogue/default.aspx?categoryId=292

http://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/Catalogue/default.aspx?categoryId=292

 

[Jamieh]

B-Grade stock should always be labelled as such. Whoever it is made by.

However, I have heard from certian reliable sources that certain companies do sell off B-Grade stock without indicating them as such. I will not mention any names for obvious reasons.

If I ever had any B-grade stock in I would definitely never sell it as A-grade. Obviously people make mistakes and a minor defect can be missed, especailly where there is a high turnaround. In these situations as long as the dealer is polite and offers a sensible compenstion/swap/repair or whatever then I think we just have to accept that people are not perfect!!!

I think this issue of the tuning machines though is a strange one. I have never even thought about it before reading this thread!

I just checked all the 3-a-side Tokais that I have in stock and NONE of them have tuning machines in a straight line. They all sort of follow the curves of the headstock so I am pretty sure this is by design and is in fact correct. This is on every guitar I have from a LS48 (MIK obv) to my own LS150 (MIJ), and including a Love Rock II and a MIJ SG.

I don't have any Gibbos at the moment, but next one I see I shall check as well. I have checked an Epi and that too has its machine heads mounted following the curvature of the headstock.

As regards the other issues though I think they should have been noted by the dealer and either corrected, returned to Tokai, or indicated. The badly aligned jack plate is an easy thing to repair and should have been spotted IMHO anyway.

EDIT - all the machine head mounting is consistant, MIJ or MIK, so I am doubly sure it is correct. The fret buzz is another thing that definitely should have been noted and the dealer should be prepared to sort it for you.

 

[Walnut]

I just checked all the 3-a-side Tokais that I have in stock and NONE of them have tuning machines in a straight line. .

The issues were not that they were not in a straight line, but the spacing was out between most of them. If there was a 5mm gap between the Bottom E and A then the others varied between 2mm and up to 8mm.
They were on the twist and in most case's ( of the ones I looked at ) the holes were not drilled in equal spaces.

 

[Jamieh]

I just checked all the 3-a-side Tokais that I have in stock and NONE of them have tuning machines in a straight line. .

The issues were not that they were not in a straight line, but the spacing was out between most of them. If there was a 5mm gap between the Bottom E and A then the others varied between 2mm and up to 8mm.
They were on the twist and in most case's ( of the ones I looked at ) the holes were not drilled in equal spaces.

Ahh.. OK, I shall check others later!!

 

[bruceboomstick]

I will not mention any names for obvious reasons.

One particular company springs to mind - when I read that post I had to cough their name. Hope it didn't sound like one of their coughs or I might be sued.

This is just a theory, but I reckon the heads following the radius of the head stock is easy to explain. Hole drilling always requires a datum point - ie a fixed point to measure the distance to the centre point of the hole from. Easiest place to measure from is the side of the headstock - if you keep the distance constant (which is the easiest thing to do) the middle tuners will be inset. In tradtional wordwork you'd make a simple rule and say drill x distance from the edge and that translates really well to modern boring machines. If it's any good for tuning I wouldn't want to speculate, but from a drilling perspective it makes sense.

Just a theory - be interested if anyone wiser than me (and let's face that's pretty much anyone) has any other ideas.

 

[Jamieh]

I will not mention any names for obvious reasons.

One particular company springs to mind - when I read that post I had to cough their name. Hope it didn't sound like one of their coughs or I might be sued.

Shhh!!! :wink:

This is just a theory, but I reckon the heads following the radius of the head stock is easy to explain. Hole drilling always requires a datum point - ie a fixed point to measure the distance to the centre point of the hole from. Easiest place to measure from is the side of the headstock - if you keep the distance constant (which is the easiest thing to do) the middle tuners will be inset. In tradtional wordwork you'd make a simple rule and say drill x distance from the edge and that translates really well to modern boring machines. If it's any good for tuning I wouldn't want to speculate, but from a drilling perspective it makes sense.

Just a theory - be interested if anyone wiser than me (and let's face that's pretty much anyone) has any other ideas.

Yes I think that is probbaly right.

Again, I will have a look at whether the alignemtn is even on the guitars I have here, but I am pretty sure they are. I guess this one in question slipped in the machine or something!!!!!!!!!