Help indetifying and dating a lefty with modified decal neck

[Mike Burley]

I have a black left handed, what i believe to be Tokai 80s strat. 5 of the 6 saddles have "final prospec" written on them and the pickups are Tokai V1 models. The plate on the back of the neck has "21221" on it and the backs of the tuners have, i think "MXCRMO" on them.

The decal, as can be seen in the pictures, is basically the spagetti fender headstock design with patent numbers 2 573 254 & 2 741 140 on it.

The guitar is well built and the neck is amazing, both the feel and finish, which gives it a slippery, slick playability. Sounds good too.

I bought this guitar thinking it was a fender (what the guy selling it to me said it was), but was pleasantly suprised to discover it was a Tokai.

I am however interested in selling, which is mainly due to the style of music i play and am looking to indentify as accurately as possible. I am currently under the impression is it 84, however not sure of model and thus price it should fetch. It is in good nick considering the age, bit scratched as i tried to demonstrate in some of the pics however no major chips.

It has recently been serviced where i had it insulated to reduce the noise, which was pretty bad but now is very managable. The electrics were also given an overhaul, due to rust blocking the 5 way switch which now works well. however when the tone knobs are right down, the volume cuts out for their respective pickups. while this may seam like a big problem, it does give the option of a killswitch with the 5 way switch and you can still get a awesome wah effect by turning them up slightly.

I will try to answer any questions i can on the guitar
thanks for any help,
I live in hampshire UK btw if anyone interested in having a look

Pics
http://s775.photobucket.com/albums/yy38/MikeBurley/MB Guitar/

 

[Mike Burley]

sorry but i just realised that the tuners say "DELUXE" not "MXCRMO"

basically this is what went wrong

D
E
L
U
X
E

If you turn your head to the side you will see what happened :wink:

Any clafication on what this is. I believe the V1 pickups suggest its a goldstar, but is 84 a good estimate for the year.

thanks, Mike

 

[Anonymous]

You can't pin the manufacture date down on a Goldstar, even if the original decals are in place. The serial numbers don't help. FINAL PROSPEC saddles mean it's probably from about 1982 onwards. If it's a Goldstar, it could be from very late 1983 till some time in the late 80s? We have never really established when the Fender headstock shape models stopped in Europe.

The decals might give a clue about when it was made, but they're long gone. Pics of the inside would help to confirm whether or not it's all original, but VI pickups do suggest a post '84 Goldstar.

As far as I know, lefty Goldstars only came in one model - the TST55L.

From the 1985 Vol 1 catalogue:

Mike

 

[Anonymous]

It has recently been serviced where i had it insulated to reduce the noise, which was pretty bad but now is very managable. The electrics were also given an overhaul, due to rust blocking the 5 way switch which now works well. however when the tone knobs are right down, the volume cuts out for their respective pickups. while this may seam like a big problem, it does give the option of a killswitch with the 5 way switch and you can still get a awesome wah effect by turning them up slightly.

If the body routs have been covered with insulating material, that could make it harder to confirm that the body is genuine Tokai - many buyers will want to see the codes stamped in the control cavity before buying. Why was the noise so bad? Most Strats function perfectly well without added shielding.

Any prospective buyer will probably want to confirm that the electrics are substantially original - the original switches are an excellent design, better than anything Fender have ever used, IMHO. Have you tried using contact cleaner on the pots? That might be all that's needed to get them working properly again.

 

[AlanN]

sorry but i just realised that the tuners say "DELUXE" not "MXCRMO"

basically this is what went wrong

D
E
L
U
X
E

If you turn your head to the side you will see what happened :wink:

Any clafication on what this is. I believe the V1 pickups suggest its a goldstar, but is 84 a good estimate for the year.

thanks, Mike

:lol: Brilliant, Mike! And thanks for being big enough to post your mistake!

 

[stelyn]

I bought my left handed Goldstar brand new in Solihull in either May 1984 or 1985 (I can't remember which). Serial No. is L24943 and the accompanying price label states model as being TST60L . FOR. I think I paid around ?250 for the instrument, which is in Tokais' equivalent of Fiesta Red. I recently replaced the "V" pickups with Bare Knuckle Irish Tours which have transformed the sound! I also had Chandlers fit larger frets in 1989. I've always assumed it to be a copy of a 1964 Strat.

 

[Anonymous]

I bought my left handed Goldstar brand new in Solihull in either May 1984 or 1985 (I can't remember which). Serial No. is L24943 and the accompanying price label states model as being TST60L . FOR. I think I paid around ?250 for the instrument, which is in Tokais' equivalent of Fiesta Red. I recently replaced the "V" pickups with Bare Knuckle Irish Tours which have transformed the sound! I also had Chandlers fit larger frets in 1989. I've always assumed it to be a copy of a 1964 Strat.

So there were 60s as well? Ok, cool. I bought a r/h ST50 in December 1983 for ?189, so maybe they charged extra for lefties?

Yeah you're right, a rosewood board Goldie is a pretty accurate '64 Strat copy, poly finish is about the only significant departure from the original specs.

 

[stelyn]

Thanks Stratman, I regularly see your postings and am always impressed by your obvious knowledge and passion for all things Strat! People often refer to VI pickups, but the ones that were previously on my TST60L.FOR are only stamped "V"
By the way, my tuners are stamped "deluxe" and my bridge saddles "final prospec". My scratchplate is 3 ply, and the fingerboard is rosewood as you correctly stated (no skunk stripe)

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Stratman, I regularly see your postings and am always impressed by your obvious knowledge and passion for all things Strat! People often refer to VI pickups, but the ones that were previously on my TST60L.FOR are only stamped "V"
By the way, my tuners are stamped "deluxe" and my bridge saddles "final prospec". My scratchplate is 3 ply, and the fingerboard is rosewood as you correctly stated (no skunk stripe)

Yeah I am quite keen on Strats. :lol: I think the V pickups were only on the TST60s, but I'm not sure about that. The 50s & 55s tended to have VIs. I'm not really sure why Tokai ever changed from the Us & Es.

 

[Anonymous]

Double post.

 

[Mike Burley]

Thanks very much for the help Stratman. Unfortunately the noise from the guitar was somewhat unuseable when any amount of dostortion was used, i dont mean metal distortion, but rather rock and blues and particularly solo sounds. The noise was farily audible even when i was playing let alone stop to pause. But it is good now. I'm not totally sure what it was he did (waxed pickups or insulated) but i took it to him and he sorted me out with some pictures of the body cavity and electrics which i have added to the origonal.

the only stamp i can make out is (BB5Z) the 5 done in pen i think, not quite on same line

Another thing he said is that the main value is in the maple neck which has a very thin rosewood top which i had never realised. I think I can see what he means although am wandering if this is likely, i have tried to demonstrate what i can see with a picture which has also been added to the previous batch (6th down i think). would this act a way of showing that atleast the neck is origonal or least of a high quality.

As far as model goes, is there any info on the curvature of the neck that would help.

Thanks again

 

[Anonymous]

the only stamp i can make out is (BB5Z) the 5 done in pen i think, not quite on same line

Another thing he said is that the main value is in the maple neck which has a very thin rosewood top which i had never realised. I think I can see what he means although am wandering if this is likely, i have tried to demonstrate what i can see with a picture which has also been added to the previous batch (6th down i think). would this act a way of showing that atleast the neck is origonal or least of a high quality.

As far as model goes, is there any info on the curvature of the neck that would help.

BB is the colour code, but it's unusual to see it in the neck pickup cavity on a Goldstar. By the time the Goldstars came out, the stamped codes had moved to the control cavity, so I don't really understand that.

Why the hell did the previous owner enlarge each pickup cavity? Strange.

I am at a loss about how anyone could claim that neck on your black guitar has a rosewood cap - it just doesn't! It's a standard vintage copy Strat neck - one piece fretted maple neck, no separate fingerboard, 7.25" radius.

I hope your guitar tech's work is better than his eyesight!

 

[jacco]

I am at a loss about how anyone could claim that neck on your black guitar has a rosewood cap - it just doesn't! It's a standard vintage copy Strat neck - one piece fretted maple neck, no separate fingerboard, 7.25" radius.

I think he means a capped maple fretboard like on a, what is it?, ST70

 

[jacco]

like this:

 

[Anonymous]

I think he means a capped maple fretboard like on a, what is it?, ST70

Unlikely, since it has the headstock plug & skunk stripe, which is how the truss rod is inserted on a fretted maple neck. They would leave that off on a maple cap board neck, wouldn't they?

Was there ever a lefty ST70?

 

[JohnA]

I think he means a capped maple fretboard like on a, what is it?, ST70

Unlikely, since it has the headstock plug & skunk stripe, which is how the truss rod is inserted on a fretted maple neck. They would leave that off on a maple cap board neck, wouldn't they?

Was there ever a lefty ST70?

You're right Mike, Mick's maple ST70 has no skunk stripe

 

[jacco]

I think he means a capped maple fretboard like on a, what is it?, ST70

Unlikely, since it has the headstock plug & skunk stripe, which is how the truss rod is inserted on a fretted maple neck. They would leave that off on a maple cap board neck, wouldn't they?

Was there ever a lefty ST70?

Yes, they would leave that off with a skunk stripe and I don't know if there ever was a lefty ST70 (but why not?). I am just looking for what he means, which is obviously not a rosewood fretboard

I think I can see what he means although am wandering if this is likely, i have tried to demonstrate what i can see with a picture which has also been added to the previous batch (6th down i think). would this act a way of showing that atleast the neck is origonal or least of a high quality.

that pic the back of the neck, does he mean the walnut skunk stripe??

 

[Mike Burley]

hmm, i didnt think it was rosewood, but could it be a maple cap as others have suggested, i does appear that there is a thin layer of wood 2mm ish that looks different to the bulk. We spoke over the phone about this so he may have got mixed up without it in front of him.

sorry for any confusion there. Even so, what would this mean, with the body cavity stamp elsewhere from where you would expect and the neck as it is?

 

[Anonymous]

The colour code stamped in the neck pickup cavity makes me wonder if it could be a later Springy rather than a Goldstar. I'm not sure exactly when they changed the stamp though.

 

[jacco]

BTW I don't see a pic of the neck stamp. Is it a Tokai neck??