Fakai? eBay Item number: 280362457838

[Lexx]

Is this a Faikai? If yes, what are the tell tales and is there reference links available to prove this?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Tokai-Love-Rock-Korean-made-Les-Paul-ELECTRIC-GUITAR_W0QQitemZ280362457838QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item4146e79aee&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1215|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

Thanks much,
Lexx

 

[stratmoto]

Make in Korea.

Maked me giggle.

Fakai indeed.

 

[Lexx]

Make in Korea.
Maked me giggle.
Fakai indeed.

Ok, thank you, that's the answer I expected. But here is the issue -- how to prove it? I must have read every single related post on TokaiForum and there is huge innuendo and snickers and edited posts that longer contain any actual INFORMATION. It's all disorganized and unconnected. But from all of that, while volumnous, I can't seem to find any REAL data. I can't even find photos of legitimate Love Rocks from the 2003-2006 range, the date range where these "famous" Canadian fakes are all from.

This is plea for help for something cohesive and concrete.

Thank you,
Lexx

 

[leadguitar_323]

Gday Lexx, No Tokai has that"Make in Korea" rubbish on the back of the headstock, the truss rod cover is wrong, it should have 3 screws, one at the top and 2 at the nut, its a different shape as well. The "Tokai" logo on the headstock is too thick, no Korean Tokai made in 2003 had a mahogany body, The shape of the rear control cavity and the position of it is wrong, different pickups, I have probably forgotten something but thats a start.....

Mick

 

[Lexx]

G-verylatenighthereinnorthamerica, Mick . Now that some good detail, thank you. Are you aware of a photo of a legitimate 2003 or 2004 or 2005 MIK Tokai Love Rock headstock to use as direct comparison?

 

[leadguitar_323]

Stratman_323 has a picture in this thread of his "no serial" korean model
http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=92950&sid=c53d8c6870778299f97bbd4643e8466d

I will try and find a pic of a MIK one with serial, the main thing to know is that the "make in Korea" type serial sticker was NEVER fitted to a real Tokai.

Mick

 

[stratmoto]

Since 2005, I have not seen a Korean made ALS Tokai with a Serial Number.

Australia recieves "correct headstock" models, without the extra dimple or bump.

The back of the headstock has MADE IN KOREA painted into the finish.

I am taking some pics of an Indigo Blue ALS48 over the weekend, however, the dark blue hides the black printing, and it may not come out too well.

I will also be photographing a Korean ES60, in See thru Red, and the back of the headstock is identical to the ALS48. So, I will post them both to help illustrate 2 correct Korean Tokai headstocks.

 

[leadguitar_323]

Excellent Peter, thanks. Do you have any pics of 2003 2004 serial number Korean ones? I have the catalogues but the pics are too small to replicate and don't have enough detail.

Mick

 

[stratmoto]

Sorry Mick,

Nothing before August 2005. That is when Tokai came back to Oz. I will be a very busy boy with the camera this weekend, and post up some pics.

Peter

 

[Lexx]

Stratman_323 has a picture in this thread of his "no serial" korean model
http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=92950&sid=c53d8c6870778299f97bbd4643e8466d

Mick, that link helps and I've seen it before. The main issue is that I wasn't clear what year that LR MIK was from.

I will try and find a pic of a MIK one with serial, the main thing to know is that the "make in Korea" type serial sticker was NEVER fitted to a real Tokai.

Mick, really would appreciate the photos. While the comments are really valuable, if one is trying to prove to someone one way or another, a picture is worth way more than a 1000 words.

I will be a very busy boy with the camera this weekend, and post up some pics.

Peter, thank you very much. These will be invaluable.

So it seems that we still have a request out for photos of legitimate MIK Love Rocks made in 2003 and 2004. Anyone?

Thanks,
Lexx

 

[leadguitar_323]

Lexx, i am pretty sure the pic of "stratmans" Korean Tokai is from that period. Pics or no pics what i said is fact, NO Tokai had the "Make in Korea" crap on the back of the headstock, that "made under license" stuff never appeared on a MIK Tokai or any Tokai for that matter. It is hard to get pics of earlier MIK Tokai because they are not sort after guitars. There is heaps more pics of the MIJ tokai's because that is what most of us own. I have the 2000 and 2003 catalogues {among others} but there is no pictures of the back of the headstock. For some reason they stopped putting serial numbers on some Korean models for a while, Stratmans is one of those. Does anyone else have any pics of the back of the headstock. Also Lexx, i am not trying to prove anything i and most others on this forum know about the Canadian fakes, Forum member Ozeshin and myself are putting a website together so we can just redirect people to that site and see for themselves. If you had to explain this too as many people as i have in the last couple of years you would understand. I have hundreds of pics of these fakes and will eventually have all the corresponding Tokai models for comparison. I can tell you that the "serial number" Korean guitars had "made in Korea" and a number only, nothing else.

Mick

 

[dombat]

Since 2005, I have not seen a Korean made ALS Tokai with a Serial Number.

Australia recieves "correct headstock" models, without the extra dimple or bump.

The back of the headstock has MADE IN KOREA painted into the finish.

I am taking some pics of an Indigo Blue ALS48 over the weekend, however, the dark blue hides the black printing, and it may not come out too well.

I will also be photographing a Korean ES60, in See thru Red, and the back of the headstock is identical to the ALS48. So, I will post them both to help illustrate 2 correct Korean Tokai headstocks.

My MIK ES60 has "made in korea" on the bottom of the back of the open book headstock, on no sticker in the f-hole

 

[Lexx]

Also Lexx, i am not trying to prove anything i and most others on this forum know about the Canadian fakes, Forum member Ozeshin and myself are putting a website together so we can just redirect people to that site and see for themselves.

Mick, I did not in any way imply that you had to prove anything. Unfortunately, I do have a situation where I do have to prove something, so this entire thread is mostly a request for help. Unfortunately, comments from people on the 'net forums don't carry a lot of weight in the real world to people not familiar with the experience. I, on the other hand, have been part of online forums for quite a few years and I have developed the sense and experience to tell what's real and what isn't online. The work that you, Ozeshin, and many others here do is clearly very real, driven by passion for the fantastic instruments, I don't even slightly question that.

In fact, I had contacted Ozeshin through PM about the site you are working on and he mentioned your name as well. An observation: if you have hundreds of photos, is that not sufficient to get that site online? I realize it's a huge amount of work, so I suspect that your available time is the main obstacle to that.

Thank you for all your work and comments. This whole situation with counterfeit Tokais is bad for everyone.

 

[leadguitar_323]

Mick, I did not in any way imply that you had to prove anything.

Hi Lexx, I wasn't trying to sound condescending, it is just that we have had a few people lately that have caused a huge fuss because they have been told that they are selling a "fake" and have then come on to the forum and abused everyone, not wanting to believe they have bought a fake, i have even supplied emails from Tokai as evidence and still the abuse flowed, so it can be a frustrating thing trying to relay info for some people. Now as far as the site goes, Oze and i are still compiling pictures of fakes and also we need to get pictures of the corresponding Tokai models or guitars they copy to make all this easier to understand even though half of the Fakes aren't even copies of Tokai's. Its quite funny actually because the last guy we tried to help had a guitar that tokai didn't even make but still refused to believe what we were telling him, Oze even verified the email came from Tokai and that wasn't even good enough. So i suppose what i am trying to say is that we don't want to create a situation where we are constantly trying to convince people of what they have, we want to make the site as informative as humanly possible so we can avoid the "non believers".


Mick

 

[Lexx]

What about this one, genuine or counterfit?

http://www.theguitarworld.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=28&products_id=15

I realize it's sold, but I am trying to train my eye to pick up the tell-tales. This one seems to have different pickup structure from other 2004 Fakais I've seen, but the truss rod cover is exactly as other fakes, is it not?

If this is a Fakai, then even reputable dealers don't know -- Guitar World is considered a very reputable dealer.

And, another one on their site, clearly a Fakai from many tell-tales documented here:

http://www.theguitarworld.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=28&products_id=104

Very sad ...

Thanks,
Lexx

 

[leadguitar_323]

They are both "fakes". Have you seen this?

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13833

Mick

 

[Lexx]

They are both "fakes". Have you seen this?
http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13833
Mick

I had not until now. Excellent, clearly many people can't wait. Fantastic initiative! Thank you!

 

[leadguitar_323]

If you find any more Lexx please post either pics or the link....

Thanks

Mick

 

[stratmoto]

Here are some headstock pics, front and rear, of Korean made FA70, ES60 and ALS48.

FA70

ES60

ALS48

Sorry that the front pics are a bit distorted. The line holding them is at full length, and the tripod is at max height, so they look like the fish eye effect is altering the shape. The back shots show a more true profile.

All Made in Korea guitars, 2005 ~2006 production.

 

[leadguitar_323]

Thanks Peter, now all i need is some pics of Korean serial number models from say 2000 onwards, more specifically 2003, 2004, anyone?

Mick