Fading Tokai tops

[jacco]

I like the faded look of an old CS Lester. I have read BOTB thoroughly so I know it's mainly the exposure to UV light that causes discolouration of the red dye. The yellow base coat layer doesn't fade.
Now I don't know if Tokai used the same composition of the lacquer and same way of applying the lacquer coats as Gibson did back in the days and I doubt anyone knows. So now we have a streak of good weather here in Holland I have decided to give it a try on my 1979 LS80 OS. There's red in the old sunburst so it should work.
Does anyone have experience with this?

 

[PhilB]

I tried it with my CS mid 80's Love Rock as I'd prefer it as teaburst but no fading has occurred at all, so I'm assuming Tokai used a different non-fade red pigment such as Gibson switched to in 1960?

 

[jacco]

Hi Phil, is yours nitro or poly? And how long did you try?

 

[PhilB]

Hi Jacco, sorry not been on here for a couple of weeks. It's nitro as far as I can tell but I haven't done the test on it so not 100% sure. It's an '85 LS80, plaintop but with one piece back and FEB so should be nitro. I've had it sat in the same place for about 6 years where it gets a blast of direct sun for about an hour every morning - that's when it's sunny!! Hasn't faded in any way at all.

Phil

 

[jacco]

Well I can say mine is beginning to fade
I have had it out in the direct sunlight for an average of 6 hours for 12 days (not in a row). A day after I took it out the last time suddenly the top had changed, so the fading process will continue even if though it's not in the sunlight anymore. Didn't know that!
The gradation of the burst is more subtle now and I can see more flame coming through in the upper horn area and pu selector switch area.

 

[marcusnieman]

I'm tempted but with our daily temps hovering at 100 F in the sun, I don't want to damage it.

 

[jacco]

I'm tempted but with our daily temps hovering at 100 F in the sun, I don't want to damage it.

Well, I guess you have enough guitars to choose from, no real damage done when one goes bad :wink:

I am quite surprised it faded so fast! Maybe it has been in the sun before? It has been around 85-90 F here. I have read that if it's too hot what will happen is that the nitro will deteriorate faster than the red will fade.

If you try Marcus, remember that you're way closer to the equator than I am and I guess the angle on which the sunlight hits the surface of the top has some influence too. My LS was sunbading in a stand, not lying down.
My guess is if you want similar results you need early or late sunlight for a few hours with the guitar in a stand for about 2 weeks.

 

[karppi]

Well I can say mine is beginning to fade
I have had it out in the direct sunlight for an average of 6 hours for 12 days (not in a row). A day after I took it out the last time suddenly the top had changed, so the fading process will continue even if though it's not in the sunlight anymore. Didn't know that!
The gradation of the burst is more subtle now and I can see more flame coming through in the upper horn area and pu selector switch area.

Very interesting. It sounds unbelievable that over 30 year old guitar fades in 72 hours so much you can actually see it. I mean that an old(ish) guitar should have been already faded some, even it was hold in case all the time. Before and after photos would be very interesting to see

I have sent this link before but there is lots of nice information, so forgive me that. Excellent sample photos on page 5, after 2 years fading.

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/historics-reissues/84987-fading-guitars.html

 

[marcusnieman]

I'm tempted but with our daily temps hovering at 100 F in the sun, I don't want to damage it.

Well, I guess you have enough guitars to choose from, no real damage done when one goes bad :wink:

I am quite surprised it faded so fast! Maybe it has been in the sun before? It has been around 85-90 F here. I have read that if it's too hot what will happen is that the nitro will deteriorate faster than the red will fade.

If you try Marcus, remember that you're way closer to the equator than I am and I guess the angle on which the sunlight hits the surface of the top has some influence too. My LS was sunbading in a stand, not lying down.
My guess is if you want similar results you need early or late sunlight for a few hours with the guitar in a stand for about 2 weeks.

Did you leave it inside or out?

You're right on the nitro thing.... if you're ever in a really hot room or playing outside, the nitro gets sticky from softening

 

[jacco]

Well I can say mine is beginning to fade
I have had it out in the direct sunlight for an average of 6 hours for 12 days (not in a row). A day after I took it out the last time suddenly the top had changed, so the fading process will continue even if though it's not in the sunlight anymore. Didn't know that!
The gradation of the burst is more subtle now and I can see more flame coming through in the upper horn area and pu selector switch area.

Very interesting. It sounds unbelievable that over 30 year old guitar fades in 72 hours so much you can actually see it. I mean that an old(ish) guitar should have been already faded some, even it was hold in case all the time. Before and after photos would be very interesting to see

I have sent this link before but there is lots of nice information, so forgive me that. Excellent sample photos on page 5, after 2 years fading.

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/historics-reissues/84987-fading-guitars.html

Karppi, thanks a lot for that link, I lost it..
I too think it's incredible how fast it went so it must have been in the sun before. It was my girlfriend who noticed it, I wasn't expecting it yet.

 

[jacco]

Did you leave it inside or out?

I left it outside, fretboard & headstock covered

 

[marcusnieman]

Did you leave it inside or out?

I left it outside, fretboard & headstock covered

Did you do the backside (assuming it's the redish hue of the current issues) to see if there was any effect?

 

[jacco]

Did you leave it inside or out?

I left it outside, fretboard & headstock covered

Did you do the backside (assuming it's the redish hue of the current issues) to see if there was any effect?

No, didn't do the backside. Mine is from 1979, don't think it's as red as current ones

 

[marcusnieman]

Did you leave it inside or out?

I left it outside, fretboard & headstock covered

Did you do the backside (assuming it's the redish hue of the current issues) to see if there was any effect?

No, didn't do the backside. Mine is from 1979, don't think it's as red as current ones

Cool.... I might put mine out for a bit this weekend.

 

[pedrocortez]

Not much point doing this where I live in North England - it would just get wet

I'll check for fading in another 30 years !

Rgds
Pete

 

[singemonkey]

Option B: Buy Violin Finish

 

[marcusnieman]

Option B: Buy Violin Finish

I did but it's still a bit red:

 

[singemonkey]

Right. That one looks like a lot of the Gibson R8s.

 

[marcusnieman]

Right. That one looks like a lot of the Gibson R8s.

Exactly

 

[jacco]

Ok, as pointed out before it's hard to capture a burst top with a picture; most of the time the red will be enhanced/deeper.
I didn't take a pic before I started trying to fade it and only have 1 pic that villager took to compare it to. I did take a few this morning and hope it will show the change that has happened;
it's more brownish than before and the edges are more see through if you know what I mean..

villager

this morning