Ebay alert

[guitarexpert]

jacco
Guitar God


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 409
Location: Sint Pancras, Netherlands
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:42 am Post subject:

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Quote:
I bought it new from a guy who is in europes leading thin lizzy tribute act, who asured me it had had its frets shaved


So he bought it new from a guy in a band?

Quote:
Sadly I have hardly had the chance to ever play this guitar due to having a hyper active young daughter, therefore the guitar has remained boxed at all times so shes not been able to destroy it yet!


Quote:
This guitar is Japanese! No one who has ever touched it has thought otherwise!


So he bought a new guitar, it has been boxed ever since and all the people that have touched the guitar think it's Japanese, this is amazing

and still there's people bidding


MY response via ebayFrom: 99p_reasons_to_shop
To: vacuumtubeclassics
Subject: Re: vacuumtubeclassics heeft een vraag gesteld over objectnummer 280547118415, dat op 15-aug-10 21:29:55 CEST afloopt - Tokai Love Rock Guitar + Hard Case (jimmy page style)
Sent Date: 13-aug-10 23:11:55 CEST




Beste vacuumtubeclassics,

How sad why are you on the tokai forum ripping my ebay ad to shreds please post this on the forum, yes the guy I bought it from was in europes leading thin lizzy tribute act and had now gone into guitar retail!! Everytime I had finished playing the guitar I put it in its box i.e I didn't leave it lying around or on a stand - that does not mean no one who ever came round to my house didn't see it!! Bet you don't post this!!


- 99p_reasons_to_shop

NO you never DID post this did you!! stop slandering me I listed the guitar for 99P!!!!!!!! not ?500 !!, and with no reserve people will make their own minds up!

 

[guitarexpert]

PROVE IT IS CHINESE and don't keep saying the same thing about the screws ect, I mean actually prove it with hard evidence - documentation, and no offense to Rich form richtone music as he has only typed in a polite way about me on here, HARD EVIDENCE OFFICALLY FROM TOKAI. them we will TYPE TALK again, THE END

 

[greco_burst]

Latest from the seller:

Ebay have just gave us a courtesy call, and told us there is nohing wrong with the listing not only that the man (guitar expert)whom I spoke to apparently knows alot more than you or I saying the FCs are known for being excellent very rare guitars and very sought after, apparently there has not been one on ebay for a while! So it appears yet again I am right and you are wrong! I suggest you go back and check the tokia registry, (you know the fan site)go too the id and dating section, and have a look at the guitar again! And tell all your sad little pals to do that as well, also tell them I'm considering selling it elsewhere! Because I would not want one of you getting your grubby little hands on it! Thats if your little gang really does exist and it's not just you!


eBay phoned him? That alone tells me it's a lie!

Hi Mike,
Yes, this is all dubious to say the least....ebay communicate with private messages only, for security reasons.

The guys have nailed this one quickly for what it really is, and the information is here for all to see anyway, someone though, just can't seem to understand the OBVIOUS differences, without wanting to demand some sort of OFFICIAL statement from Tokai. Having said that, why couldn't the seller email Tokai himself then? :roll:

I see that the listing goes on to make tasteless remarks about this forum, and it's members :roll:

 

[guitarexpert]

Latest from the seller:

Ebay have just gave us a courtesy call, and told us there is nohing wrong with the listing not only that the man (guitar expert)whom I spoke to apparently knows alot more than you or I saying the FCs are known for being excellent very rare guitars and very sought after, apparently there has not been one on ebay for a while! So it appears yet again I am right and you are wrong! I suggest you go back and check the tokia registry, (you know the fan site)go too the id and dating section, and have a look at the guitar again! And tell all your sad little pals to do that as well, also tell them I'm considering selling it elsewhere! Because I would not want one of you getting your grubby little hands on it! Thats if your little gang really does exist and it's not just you!


eBay phoned him? That alone tells me it's a lie!

Hi Mike,
Yes, this is all dubious to say the least....ebay communicate with private messages only, for security reasons.

The guys have nailed this one quickly for what it really is, and the information is here for all to see anyway, someone though, just can't seem to understand the OBVIOUS differences, without wanting to demand some sort of OFFICIAL statement from Tokai. Having said that, why couldn't the seller email Tokai himself then? :roll:

I see that the listing goes on to make tasteless remarks about this forum, and it's members :roll:

Yes mike I have just explained I am using my girlfirends account, but signing messages in my name so they wanted to check everything was ok on that end!! THEY HAVE NOT REMOVED THE LISTING AND HAVE NO INTENSION OF DOING SO!!!!!!! EVERYONE IS CALLING ME A LIER BUT NO ONE SEEMS TO WANT TO PROVIDE ANY EVIDENCE TO PROVE THAT I AM. INNOCENT UNTILL PROVEN GUILTY!!! WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT!! STRATMAN GET ON THE COMPUTER EMAIL TOKAI AND PROVE ME WRONG I DARE YOU!

 

[guitarexpert]

I take it you have reported this guitar to ebay??? why have ebay not removed the listing?? ANSWER: THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH IT!!!! NOTHING WRONG WITH THE LISTING!!

STRATMAN YOU WERE GOOD AT EXPLAINING THE RULES OF SLANDER TO ME ON EBAY MESSAGES SO ASWER THIS INNOCENT UNTILL PROVEN YES PROVEN PROVEN IE, YOU PROVE I AM WRONG PEOPLES OPINION WOULD NOT SAND UP IN A COURT OF LAW WOULD IT ONLY THE HARD FACTS NOT OPINION. YOU HAVE CHALLENGED ME NOW PROVE ME WRONG

 

[Anonymous]

Having said that, why couldn't the seller email Tokai himself then? :roll:

I see that the listing goes on to make tasteless remarks about this forum, and it's members :roll:

I sent the seller the address of the Tokai UK website & invited him to contact them for all the proof he could possibly want. For some reason, he is unwilling to do that. His explanation for this was:

I am not too good with comptuers, prove your point and actually show me evidence that relates to ths serial number ie, cut and paste send a direct link to the information, just because someone has enough money to import tokais to sell does not make them an expert, send me direct information, but you can't can you as none exists or you would have sent it to me!


So even the official Tokai distributor for the UK is not sufficiently "expert" for our seller. :lol: It would be funny if it wasn't so sad....

Oh, and just for reference, this is what a Japanese Love Rock has stamped on the back of the headstock.

 

[guitarexpert]

You keep going on about my friend, the guy is not my friend he is just some guy that ebay employs probably in the musical instument division or whatever, i did ask him his name!! AGAIN EXPLAIN WHY EBAY HAVE NOT REMOVED THE LISTING , answer because I am not lying.[/size
STRATMAN I AM BECOMING AS SAD AS YOU I EAGERLY AWAIT YOUR RESPONSE! 8)

 

[guitarexpert]

Having said that, why couldn't the seller email Tokai himself then? :roll:

I see that the listing goes on to make tasteless remarks about this forum, and it's members :roll:

I sent the seller the address of the Tokai UK website & invited him to contact them for all the proof he could possibly want. For some reason, he is unwilling to do that. His explanation for this was:

I am not too good with comptuers, prove your point and actually show me evidence that relates to ths serial number ie, cut and paste send a direct link to the information, just because someone has enough money to import tokais to sell does not make them an expert, send me direct information, but you can't can you as none exists or you would have sent it to me!


So even the official Tokai distributor for the UK is not sufficiently "expert" for our seller. :lol: It would be funny if it wasn't so sad....

Oh, and just for reference, this is what a Japanese Love Rock has stamped on the back of the headstock.

NOT ALL JAPAN TOKAIS HAVE THAT YOU MORON!!!!!!!!!!!! patrick

 

[guitarexpert]

STRATMAN I ASKED FOR HARD EVIDENCE NOT A PHOTO OF YOUR GUITAR!!!!

 

[Anonymous]

STRATMAN YOU WERE GOOD AT EXPLAINING THE RULES OF SLANDER TO ME ON EBAY MESSAGES SO ASWER THIS INNOCENT UNTILL PROVEN YES PROVEN PROVEN IE, YOU PROVE I AM WRONG PEOPLES OPINION WOULD NOT SAND UP IN A COURT OF LAW WOULD IT ONLY THE HARD FACTS NOT OPINION. YOU HAVE CHALLENGED ME NOW PROVE ME WRONG

Certainly. I am innocent of libel (and slander) until & unless you can prove me guilty in a court of law. The onus is on you to prove that I was wrong, & that what I said constituted libel. Unfortunately for you, it doesn't.

If you do take me to court, (which would be most entertaining), I will ask Tokai UK, & various other experts, to confirm that the guitar in question was Chinese. Therefore proving that what I said was correct, & ipso facto not libellous.

Capeesh?

 

[greco_burst]

Having said that, why couldn't the seller email Tokai himself then? :roll:

I see that the listing goes on to make tasteless remarks about this forum, and it's members :roll:

I sent the seller the address of the Tokai UK website & invited him to contact them for all the proof he could possibly want. For some reason, he is unwilling to do that. His explanation for this was:

I am not too good with comptuers, prove your point and actually show me evidence that relates to ths serial number ie, cut and paste send a direct link to the information, just because someone has enough money to import tokais to sell does not make them an expert, send me direct information, but you can't can you as none exists or you would have sent it to me!


So even the official Tokai distributor for the UK is not sufficiently "expert" for our seller. :lol: It would be funny if it wasn't so sad....

Oh, and just for reference, this is what a Japanese Love Rock has stamped on the back of the headstock.

Good work Mike,

well i guess.....'you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink'

ooops horse or goat? hehehe :lol: :lol:

 

[guitarexpert]

STRATMAN PROVE ME WRONG YOU EMAIL TOKAI AND PROVE ME WRONG WHY WON'T YOU DO IT??? DO IT EMAIL TOKAI AND POST THEIR RESPONSE ON HERE PROVE ME WRONG
STILL NO HARD EVIDENCE PROVE ME WRONG
YOU ARE CALLING ME A LIER SO PROVE ME WRONG

PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG WITH REAL EVIDENCE

EMAIL TOKAI PLEASE DO IT DO IT DO IT
WHY WON'T YOU DO IT??????????????
WHY STRATMAN??? is it because you come on here and slagg ebay listings to put people off and then you secretly buy them under a different ebay account??

 

[guitarexpert]

ps get a grip im not gonna take you to court!!

ITS UP TO YOU TO PROVE ME WRONG YOUR THE ONE WHOS CALLING ME A Liar SO PROVE IT!!!

BET YOU WON't DO IT!! All type no action PROVE ME WRONG EMAIL TOKAI AND PROVE THAT I AM a Liar go on do it for all those poor kids who you accuse me of ripping off, be the hero

 

[Anonymous]

I won't e.mail Bob at Tokai UK because he won't be back at work till Monday, & your grubby little advert will have closed by then. Besides which, I (and everybody else who has contributed to this thread) know it's Chinese from the serial number. We've seen lots of them on here - feel free to use the SEARCH facility to check what other Chinese Tokais look like.

I agree with everyone else on here. You don't. You claim that everybody is wrong except you. So prove us all wrong.

Or STFU.

:roll:

 

[Anonymous]

ps get a grip im not gonna take you to court!!

I know. Shame.

 

[guitarexpert]

PATHETIC , you won't email bob cause he won't be back till monday?? and my listing ends before that?? SO WHAT YOU have accused my of being a liar and I want this cleared up!!

WHY ARE YOU WORMING YOUR WAY OUT OF IT!!!
IF YOU PROVE ME WRONG (WHICH YOU WON'T) I WILL WITH HOLD THE GUITAR IM HARDLY GOING TO POST IT ON A SUNDAY NIGHT NOW AM I??? I WILL ASK THE WINNER IF THEY STILL WANT IT IF NOT NO PROBLEMS!

CAN't SAY Fairer than that can you people? SO Stratman please email TOKAI AND PROVE ME WRONG no more excuses.

 

[Anonymous]

PATHETIC , you won't email bob cause he won't be back till monday?? and my listing ends before that?? SO WHAT YOU have accused my of being a liar and I want this cleared up!!

.

So you write to him. I have nothing to prove. You do.

Or STFU. :wink:

 

[marcusnieman]

PATHETIC , you won't email bob cause he won't be back till monday?? and my listing ends before that?? SO WHAT YOU have accused my of being a liar and I want this cleared up!!

WHY ARE YOU WORMING YOUR WAY OUT OF IT!!!
IF YOU PROVE ME WRONG (WHICH YOU WON'T) I WILL WITH HOLD THE GUITAR IM HARDLY GOING TO POST IT ON A SUNDAY NIGHT NOW AM I??? I WILL ASK THE WINNER IF THEY STILL WANT IT IF NOT NO PROBLEMS!

CAN't SAY Fairer than that can you people? SO Stratman please email TOKAI AND PROVE ME WRONG no more excuses.

I'm more interested in seeing more of the guitar for sale. What is stamped on the bottom of the tailpiece and bridge? Pickups?

Also have a question about the listing stating that "Also many of the older japanese tokais were actually assembled in china due to cheaper labour!"

If I'm not mistaken, the Tokai / China relationship is a new one.... having come after the made in Korea era..... which came after the exclusively made in Japan era. What year(s) of the "older" Tokais were assembled in China?

Just curious.... I'm not jumping into the fray here. Just want to be informed

One other tidbit from the listing - "It is pretty much the closest you will get to a 56 gibson without paying ten grand!" 1956 Les Pauls had P90's in them - not humbuckers (Tokai MIJ - note trussrod cover)

 

[JVsearch]

PATHETIC , you won't email bob cause he won't be back till monday?? and my listing ends before that?? SO WHAT YOU have accused my of being a liar and I want this cleared up!!

You stick to your guns boyo! But if the guitar sells for the sort of price an authentic made in Japan Tokai LP sells for then you would technically be guilty of obtaining a financial advantage by deception.

It wont be a mistake because you've actually been made aware of the truth about the guitar, and had the opportunity to rectify the mistake. Any reasonable seller when confronted with the weight of opinion from a specialist Tokai forum would make his own enquiries to satisfy himself that he is not deceiving his potential buyers. To suggest that people on this forum have to provide you with proof is very poor on your part.

Sorry, but there's absolutely no doubt about that guitar. That's not to say that it isn't a perfectly respectable LP with a decent case, and probably worth a couple of hundred quid or a bit more if you get a few bidders with limited knowledge.

 

[JohnA]

Take a look at this ad for a made in china Tokai

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tokai-LS48-Premium-Electric-Guitar-Tobacco-Sunburst-/270608608713?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV

Have a look at the 4th pic down (click to enlarge) you can see the bridge posts are fitted to metal inserts on the guitar, this is a Chinese trait, the Japanese ones are fitted straight in to the wood like a proper Les Paul see here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tokai-Love-Rock-LS135-Electric-Guitar-MCS-1022350-/270607802763?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV

Can you post some close-ups of yours?


Here's the two pics:

Japanese:

Chinese