Ok everyone - it finally came in this morning. After pulling off the neck pickup, I was super excited to see a solid top! As you can see, the flame runs throughout the entire maple cap. This guitar sounds great, but is definitely in need of a bit of a setup!
Differences Between LS150 and LS200
- Thread starter gbo10
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Here is a closer pic of the tokai logo featuring the scratched headstock. It looks like it’s possible there was some amber finish on the logo originally, but it is hard to tell because most of it was scratched away. Not sure if that is any indication of it perhaps being an LS-200, but it is probably too tough to tell based on its current condition.
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That is amazing and what I had been thinking. I believe it is an LS150 or 200.
Maybe compare notes with Cliff? He has a bunch of them and is a good resource.
And finish stripped (poorly) as I thought.
Maybe compare notes with Cliff? He has a bunch of them and is a good resource.
And finish stripped (poorly) as I thought.
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Congrats @gbo10 as it looks like your gamble paid off 
and I'm glad my opinion was wrong (as I often am) LOL.
That fiddle has a lot of character; I would just clean it up a bit and not much else.
To quote Joe Walsh, "I’m cleaning it up a bit. I got a lot of other peoples’ yuck out of it" and play the Hell outta that gem of a find.
and I'm glad my opinion was wrong (as I often am) LOL.That fiddle has a lot of character; I would just clean it up a bit and not much else.
To quote Joe Walsh, "I’m cleaning it up a bit. I got a lot of other peoples’ yuck out of it" and play the Hell outta that gem of a find.
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Yeah the finish is stripped on the headstock for sure and I’m going to have to think of a way to repair that. It’s not super noticeable unless you’re up close though. In terms of the body and neck, I do not think that the finished was stripped. You can still see the amber coat on the binding. It does seem like an extremely thin finish though
Thanks so much! It was definitely a bit of a gamble but it plays great and is probably the most resonant guitar I have. I’m going to need to get it set up properly, and then I’ll have to see about restoring anything after that. The headstock scratches don’t bother me as much as I thought they would, but I’d imagine it would be fairly easy to touch it up and make it look nicerCongrats @gbo10 as it looks like your gamble paid off
That fiddle has a lot of character; I would just clean it up a bit, "to get other people's muck off it" to quote Joe Walsh and play the Hell outta that gem of a find.
Great! So happy to see it passed that test. That is a very nice top. If it were mine, I wouldn't touch the finish on anything other than maybe the scratches on the face of the headstock. I see these guitars as copies of Bursts from the Golden Era 58', 59' and 60'. And if you follow them long enough enough, you see that refins are punished severely in the price they can demand. They are not punished for having heavy play wear and most of the collectors love it. JB being a good reference. He would probably leave it as is and name it scratch. Me? I don't see that headstock as natural wear. It looks more like purposely scratched for whatever reason. And that would bother the value of most collectors. I would have it repaired by a good Luthier. And aged accordingly. It would be a relatively easy repair even being very careful not to mess with the logo. I am of the opinion, these old Tokais are going to keep skyrocketing in price, like the Bursts. Because they have the magic. Nothing will ever be as good as a real Burst. But these get about as close as you can get, because of the wood used. A lot of famous musicians cherish old guitars with natural heavy wear. Gibsons, Fenders and others. An old guitar that has been heavily played, has a feel in the hands like no other. That is why people pay a lot of extra cash to purchase the relic reissues. I have a heavy relic 2019 Fender CS Nocaster and I love that thing. They cost about a grand more than one made to look as would have looked new. The same goes for Historics by Gibson. Lik Sigmania suggested, I would just clean it. wouldnt use any polish though. Or wax. It gets in the scratches and chips and looks like crap. And a good setup and fret level and polish will bring out the best in it. I would also get some good pots, caps 22mf, braided wire, wired 50's style. And a replica bridge and stop tail. Made from the same materials as the real Bursts. Faber USA has some good ones that fit perfectly and line the strings up perfectly. Aged nickel over brass saddles. I think Tokai used bone nuts. The Bursts used a certain kind of Nylon. If you can find one like those and have it installed and cut properly, you will be even closer to real deal. Of course, these are just my opinions and every one has them. I have no issues with leaving them as factory original as possible either. Or people making them their own. Congrats. Oh. don't be afraid to lower the pickups. For me they sound a lot better riding really low. like an 1/8" when strings fretted on last fret or more. It's an easy test that can be easily reversed. It also keeps the strings a little further away from magnets which helps with sustain.
How much does weigh?
It weighs in at 4kg according to the seller and on my bathroom scale it comes in at a little under 9lb
Thanks for all the suggestions! I personally like the wear on the body and the guitar has a very played in feel which I love. I think the wear on the body is all natural so I doubt I would get the body refinished, but like you said, it may be nice to get that face of the headstock restored. I may eventually look into the wiring and electronics, but I’ve been thinking about leaving it stock to help keep the originality and prove the model of the guitar. We will see though, I love trying new pickups and things lol
I was thinking about trying some Custom Buckers. They are pricey though. As long as you keep all the original electronics, it's all the proof you need. There is plenty of proofs already. 4kg/8.8lbs is really good for a Tokai. That's one thing that they are a little heavier than Bursts which usually came in at 8.5 lbs. Give or take.
Here is an LS150 that is on YJ right now.
1980 LS150
Your grain is way more intense.
I would not doubt if you found an LS200.
I would seriously consider having it restored by someone that is really good at it and can do cashew.
LS200s have gotten crazy expensive. Would be worth looking into.
1980 LS150
Your grain is way more intense.
I would not doubt if you found an LS200.
I would seriously consider having it restored by someone that is really good at it and can do cashew.
LS200s have gotten crazy expensive. Would be worth looking into.
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Yeah it would definitely be worth looking into. I am just not sure who would be capable of doing a cashew refinish. If anyone knows someone, please let me know!
CliffsGuitarWorld
Well-known member
Personally, I would not touch the guitar and or refinish with Cashew lacquer.
I have done extensive study on cashew. Being it is a Japanese product and not very common, it has been hard to find very much on it. It would probably help if someone spoke Japanese and searched in Japanese. In the States, there is very little info. Finding the same product Tokai used is going to be difficult. Finding someone that has experience with cashew would probably be very difficult as well. Like Cliff said, I wouldn't mess with it. The wear and patina is really cool in my opinion. Finishing a guitar is an art. Combining that with trying to finish it the way Tokai did would be next to impossible. There is no info on their process and a lot of experimentation would have to be done. What sealer they used. What type of dyes. Etc. To find someone that does top notch work, would be very expensive. It would most like be someone that specializes in Gibson finishes which are done differently. The Tokai finishing is very unique. I think you would be disappointed if you are trying to make it look authentic. Then there is the 40ish years of aging that simply can't be replicated. Tokais don't age like Gibsons. They don't do the checking thing. At least I haven't seen any. Their lacquer is different than the Nitro Gibson used. It seems to last forever. If it ambers over time is questionable. I think they come out looking old even when new. They were trying to copy the Bursts. What amount of amber they put in their lacquer, what kind of lacquer, etc. The Cashew comes in a couple of amber tones. It's hard to find and expensive. And I would guess can vary in tone given the 4 decades between new and now. The guitar looks very cool with it's natural play wear and aging. I love it. The headstock face? Not so much. That I would definitely get repaired. If you want one that looks like new, you would be better off selling it and buying one that has been preserved. It would be a lot cheaper. There are plenty of people that would pay top dollar for yours minus the cost to repair that facia. I don't think it's a Cashew. That is just by looking at pics. I don't think many 150's were Cashew if any. But who knows. It's still a very cool piece regardless.
I didn't say it would be easy. I have had people do work on vintage pieces of mine that was indistinguishable afterwards.
If it is an LS200 these guitars are fetching prices around $10,000 in some cases.
LS200 Gallery
Worth the effort to find someone and spend a few hundred dollars in my opinion.
Every town of decent size should have a luthier than can work with lacquer.
Cashew was used on select Japanese guitars to give an amber tone and an aged look and has been used on Japanese furniture for ages. Would not be hard to research. I have created a whole thread on it.
Cashew Finish
The unique part is using it on guitars, which Fernandes did initially in 1975 or so.
The down side is the drying time. Probably why it was only used on the most expensive models.
Worth some effort. It's a prize guitar, and its a tragedy what someone did to it.
The vibrant color of the top was the giveaway when I first saw it. An amber finish would tone that down and give a warmer look. Even straight lacquer would help.
Again, a luthier of some skill could sort this out. I would imagine they would do some test areas and see if the original finish that is remaining has an amber color to it. If not, the job got easier and you have an LS150.
Good luck whatever you do.
If it is an LS200 these guitars are fetching prices around $10,000 in some cases.
LS200 Gallery
Worth the effort to find someone and spend a few hundred dollars in my opinion.
Every town of decent size should have a luthier than can work with lacquer.
Cashew was used on select Japanese guitars to give an amber tone and an aged look and has been used on Japanese furniture for ages. Would not be hard to research. I have created a whole thread on it.
Cashew Finish
The unique part is using it on guitars, which Fernandes did initially in 1975 or so.
The down side is the drying time. Probably why it was only used on the most expensive models.
Worth some effort. It's a prize guitar, and its a tragedy what someone did to it.
The vibrant color of the top was the giveaway when I first saw it. An amber finish would tone that down and give a warmer look. Even straight lacquer would help.
Again, a luthier of some skill could sort this out. I would imagine they would do some test areas and see if the original finish that is remaining has an amber color to it. If not, the job got easier and you have an LS150.
Good luck whatever you do.
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If you know a guitar finisher that is top notch that will refinish a guitar for a few hundred dollars, please message me his info. And I would like to some some pics of the work he did for you. To strip a finish is worth 200 in my opinion. I would be love to have a guy like that.
It a diverse world. Different people have different tastes from each other. I'd leave it, you would want it to look new again.
Can't wait to see what he does with it. I wish some of these collectors like Cliff would get a top notch player and make some videos playing their babies so we can hear them. Or we should plan a forum member get together where everyone brings their Tokais and we can a/b them against each other and against Standard and High end Gibsons. That would be a blast. I would wager a video of such a meeting would be very popular.
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