1985 ls-80 confusion???Please help

[Watto]

Hi Folks,

I'm Finally in the Market For a Tokai LP standard.I've been searching locally here in Australia.I've found 3 that I'm tossing up between.

The first one and favourite so far is listed as a 1985 LS-80.I've searched the registry and gone in armed with as much info as I can.

Here's what I've found. It's serial number says it's an 85 model,There is no marking on the fretboard,the top is lightly flamed .I was allowed to pull the pickups and with magnifying glass cannot see the laminate.It looks to be a solid flamed maple top.The neck tenon stops at the pickup cavity and doesn't continue under the cavity.There is no stamps or markings in the cavities whatsoever.The neck pickup has a gold bass plate and no markings.The bridge pickup is a Seymour Duncan JB.The pots have been replaced with genuine Gibson pots and the caps are the old genuine bumble bees

The seller assumes it's an LS-80 but I'm starting to think otherwise.What do you experts think.

The other 2 guitars are an all original LS-50 reborn old with a 2 piece body and 2 piece top, and a 1996 LS-60 all original with a one piece body and a 2 piece top.

They are all similarly priced with the LS 80 about $200 aussie Dollars more than the other 2,They are all cherry sunburst.

Could you folks tell me what you think and which one you'd go for.I've only played the LS-80 and it feels awesome.the finish seems to be nitro like my vintage strat.

Thanks heaps
Watto

 

[ian]

Hi Watto, welcome to the Forum 8) . Sorry I?m so late replying.

Without checking, I think 1985 LS80 should have circuit-board in control cavity (ie not discrete caps). It won?t have model number on Fretboard, that finished in 1980. Wouldn?t worry about lack of id-marks in pup cavities, not all Tokais have that. If it?s really a solid flamed top then it?s definitely a high-end model like LS150 or LS200, however, they?re very rare & the veneer is very thin & often tricky to spot, have another close look I bet it?s veneer ? could be LS60, LS80, LS100, LS120. Not sure about neck pup, but JB is replacement of course (that?s OK, but guitar worth more stock, so haggle on price a bit).

LS50 Reborn-Old should have 3-piece top (check it again)? if that?s stock & good to play then I?d have the Reborn-50 rather than either of the other two. All have poly finish, but quite thin & can seem like nitro. All just my 2cents ... be good to know what others think on these models :-? .

Ian.

 

[Watto]

Hi Ian,
Thanks for the reply,

The seller of the reborn has confirmed the 3 piece top,and it's all original,witha 2 piece back.I can afford a modern Les Paul but I don't here many good things about them,

I used to own a late 70's LP in CSB by Ibanez but sold it years ago and have always wanted a Tokai as I hear it's a great guitar. I own a few vintage Tokai strats but I really want a LP so I've convinced myself that a Tokai it will be.

I don't want a guitar that will be locked away in a room somewhere,I need a player that will come with me to the various Bikie pubs I get hired to play our Aussie style blues boogie.
what I'm saying is I want a great quality guitar that will be loved but needs to sound great as well.I've looked around and think I'd like something pre 1985.

Does a 3 piece top and 2 piece back effect the sound.Should I hunt an LS 80 up.I'm not too sure.

Thanks for your opinions

Watto 8)

 

[ian]

Well just my opinion ? & hope others will chip in, & maybe disagree, but ? nope, absolutely no sonic difference between 3-piece, 2-piece, 1-piece back/top ? and, nope I wouldn?t bother hunting for an LS80 or higher, I?d buy the Reborn Old-50.

Sounds like you want a good solid Les Paul to play no-nonsense gigs, in which case I think you can hardly get a better Les Paul than that Reborn. Guys may argue about a high-end Tokai or Gibbo Historic series, but I think it?s all pretty close (Reborn pups may need waxing if you play at high volumes).

Obviously best if you can play all three guitars and compare them. But unless it?s knackered I think you?ll prefer the Reborn ? if it doesn?t seem right then it may just need some work from a decent Tech ? that's true for all old guitars (but watch out for fatal stuff like twisted neck) :-? .

Ian.

 

[Watto]

Thanks for the advice Ian,

I think you've talked me into it.I was leaning towards the 80 only because I've played it and its in my home town .But I've had my eye on the reborn for a while .Its about 1000 kms away so I can't play it but the seller ,who deals in many Japanese Guitars,assures me it's a real player.

This will be a keeper so I might as well go for the old reborn.

Thanks for your advice
Watto 8)

 

[ian]

Well, bit of a dilemma huh ? I mean, you?ve played the LS80 & seems pretty good ?whereas Reborn is 1000Km away & you have to take it on trust ? tricky. Sellers always say ?plays great?, but opinions differ & you may think it plays like a dog ?on balance I?d still favor the Reborn, but accept it?s more risky buying without seeing or playing ? how much is he asking, is price competitive with eBay? Bear in mind that Reborn?Old is worth maybe 15%-20% less than earlier Les Paul Reborn (same guitar, extra just for Les Paul name).

Someone want to chip in here,... offer a different opinion?

Ian.

 

[Watto]

That's the dilema I'm faced with.

The 1985 LS-80 that I played is approx $1400 US and it has changed pots and Bridge pickup.

The reborn is original and asking $1250 US with free postage

The 1996 LS-60 with 2 piece top is $1090 US with free postage and all original.

If I buy say the Lespaul reborn LS-60 (i think ) that Katana in Japan is selling then I'm up for $135 US in postage.Then again that is also sight unseen and unplayed so I'm in the same boat,At least with the ones here in Aust I'd have a reasonable chance of exchange if they turn out to be a dog.

I would really like a Les Paul Reborn but it's not absolutely necessary as I don't buy my guitars with a resale in mind.They are all bought as keepers and only sometimes I move them on if I find I'm not using them.But as I'm basically a strat player and I'm looking for just one Les Paul to give me some variety,then I'd realy like a great quality keeper, and with all the info on this site I'd really like something from the late 70's to early 80's.The ones that scared the s?*t out of the yanks.

Thanks for your help so far Ian

Watto

8)

 

[ian]

Wow, ?wait ? those prices are all WAY TOO HIGH!

1996 LS60 is only worth about $600 ?. 1985 LS80 maybe $800. The Reborn-Old is harder to price because of collector interest, but not above $900 in perfect original condition.

For example,... Guitargui is usualy pricey, but see this 1981 LS50 at $650 http://www.guitargai.com/html_folder/gai_otherCA4.html#

That Reborn LP60 from Katana may need a refret (check his words carefully), it has pup swap & weighs 10lb 6oz ? maybe OK around current $850 but not much more.

Amongst eBay sellers I particularly like Japanoldguitar ? he currently has ?mint? 1980 LS80, but clownburst colour & Burny pups are turn-off http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2384&item=7305041900&rd=1. See the guitar he just sold to Mike Levitt for $596 http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3506&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 (he also sold truly beautiful 1981 LS50 recently for only $480).

Please, do yourself a favour ? watch eBay carefully for a few weeks & you?ll easily find better than any of the above ? watch Japanoldguitar in particular.

Ian.

 

[Watto]

Thanks for the advice,

I'm definitely going that way then.I'll kindly say thanks but no thanks to the Aussie sellers,

I'm glad I asked,I might get that Les paul Reborn afterall

Watto 8)

 

[Watto]

Just an update for you Ian,

A friends contact in Japan has just found me a 'Les Paul Reborn ' in cherry sunburst ,all original in it's original case.It has a solid plain top and covered pickups.From the photo's I've recieved it looks like a LS-60

It's currently traveling across the Pacific to my door.I ended up paying $1300au which is approx $1000 us..But that is total cost to my door.

Thank you so much for your advice.
I'll give you an update once I've recieved her.

If you're ever inOz ,I owe you a beer.

Rock on
Watto 8)

 

[ian]

G?day mate ? hey before you offer any beer, you?d better get that Reborn in your hands & check it?s all OK. Seriously, congratulations, should be great guitar 8) .

Easy to tell LS60 from LS50 ? LS50 has 3-piece top, whereas LS60 is 2-piece (center-matched) ? covered pups is correct, & usualy has impressed number ?60? at end of Fretboard.

Just be aware that old guitars like this sometimes need a decent ?seeing to? from a Tech, ie decent setup, maybe a little fret work, maybe truss-rod adjustment etc., ? if you?re lucky it may be love at first lick, but if not then setup & a little time getting accustomed with it should show what good guitars these are.

So,? usual request ? Pics & playing report when it arrives, if you?d be so kind. Once again, congrats,?I?m sure it will prove great guitar :-? .

Ian.

 

[Watto]

Just be aware that old guitars like this sometimes need a decent ?seeing to? from a Tech, ie decent setup, maybe a little fret work, maybe truss-rod adjustment etc., ? if you?re lucky it may be love at first lick, but if not then setup & a little time getting accustomed with it should show what good guitars these are.


Ian.

This is the part I'm looking forward to( Alongside the playing of course).I run a little custom guitar building setup from home,It keeps me off the streets,I've so far built Tele style guitars and a Strat styles as well,with kinman electronics ,Callaham bridges and Aussie woods etc.I also offer traditional nitro resprays,Haven't got the confidence to build a set neck as yet but I will be studying the reborn to see how it's done.
Once I set her up with 11-52's and a fret dress etc I'm confident she'll go into the NEVER TO BE SOLD section of my small collection.

I'll get some photos and feedback asap.
Thanks again
Watto 8)

 

[kiwi]

Howzit Watto! It's all probably a bit late now, but you can check out my '83 TLS 80 on the "Dazed and Confused" thread that has been going the last couple of days- I'm kinda thinkin' of selling her, and I also live in Oz, a couple of hours away from Brissie.....
From personal experience I know it really is difficult to know how a guitar is going to sound and feel until you have her in your hands- some guitars just have got that 'something', irrespective of model number etc. Having said that tho', my '78 LS60 is the nicest Les Paul I have ever played, and that includes Gibbo's also....the build quality looks superior even to my 150, so if I had a choice, then I'd go for the older of the available choices, all being equal ( which it hardly ever is! ).
BTW, those of you in the Northern Hemisphere, have pity on us hard done by "southerners", as we get hammered importing our Tokais into Oz! The LS80 I bought for 800 US dollars (perhaps a bit high??)....after shipping, duty, GST, and then exchange rate, it worked out at a little over 1400 Australian!! Long may the US dollar fall!!
All the best, Kiwi....(displaced I know...)

 

[Watto]

Just be aware that old guitars like this sometimes need a decent ?seeing to? from a Tech, ie decent setup, maybe a little fret work, maybe truss-rod adjustment etc., ? if you?re lucky it may be love at first lick, but if not then setup & a little time getting accustomed with it should show what good guitars these are.

So,? usual request ? Pics & playing report when it arrives, if you?d be so kind. Once again, congrats,?I?m sure it will prove great guitar :-? .

Ian.

It's here, It's here,

Just arrived yesterday,It got held up in customs and cost me some bucks to set her free,

Anyway now I've got her here's the specs,

*79 les paul reborn,
*LS-50 Cherry Sunburst
*3 piece top with some flame in one of the pieces,2 piece back,very hard to see the join,
*Pickups are covered with "Patent Applied For made by gotoh" stamped on the back in black,
*Came with 009's but I've put 11-52's on.
*No scratches in the paint but has had the dreaded headstock break off,Very professional repair though,can barely see the crack.
*Completely original with no solder breaks or anything like that
*Sounds very resonant unplugged and sustain for days plugged in
*Pickups sound great, not too hot.I can easily pull those early zz top tones and Peter green sounds (not the out of phase though)

*the neck is not dead straight and there is some fret buzz between the 3rd and 11th frets.Nothing major.
*Charles Cilia, our local LP guru is going to give her the magic touch,says he can have her playing great in a couple of days.

All in All I'm very happy with her,I can now see first hand what all the fuss is about with these old reborns.My friend has and old Gibson goldtop 56 original and played the reborn and said " this is as close as you'll get"

I'll post some photos when I get her back from Charles and work out how to do it.

Thanks again Ian for all your great advice,

Rock on
Watto 8)

 

[Watto]

Hi Folks,

I haven't posted for a while ,I've been in mourning since my last post.

Here's what happened...............

I drove the 125km's to give the guitar to Charles,He straightened the neck,I picked her up a week later and he gave her an amazing fret dress and set it up with the lowest buzzless action.Due to the long drive I decided to stay at my mum's close by.I played the guitar for about 3 hours unplugged and then went to the bathroom.

Upon my return mum said " your guitar just fell over and there was a loud cracking sound" . To my HORROR I picked it up and the headstock had cracked from the Low E machine head in a curve down to the nut and back up to the high E machine head.There was only 1mm of wood stopping it from snapping off totally.
I'd only had her back for 3 hours.

The thing is when it fell it was sitting on the seat of the lounge leaning against the back of the lounge and slid sideways and landed on cushions.There was no major impact whatsoever but she still cracked.

So I went back to Charles and 4 weeks later I went to pick her up.He said he had a problem when I arrived. I feared the worst.The Neck was repaired so well I can't even tell it was cracked so I said what's the problem.He said when he removed the masking tape on the headstock after refinishing he noticed the LES PAUL REBORN symbol came off with the tape.He was devistated and said it wasn't sealed from the factory and didn't realise until it was too late..

But luckily a good friend has a LP reborn and he has painstakingly recreated the logo for me and this time sealed it (and my friends one) with clear.The job is so good I couldn't pick the two apart,

So she is now safely home on a very sturdy guitar stand and I am very happy once again.

So be careful with the decals all you LP reborn owners.

Rock on
Watto 8)