I think the decal is legit but need the neck code like you say. Might have had a neck swap and the plate went with the neck, though plates tend to stay with the bodies. If the plate is correct, why swap a standard tokai RW neck for another? Could be for the logo I suppose.
1982 Fender Style Serial Numbers
- Thread starter Sigmania
- Start date
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I think this has been a really good exercise.
If you look at the numbers we have come up with in these threads you can see how far off widely circulated tables like the one Homer posted and the one on the Faber site are.
I personally believe they are off because of the prevailing underlying false assumption that script logos came in in 1984. And that block logos went through 1983.
It is also critical to distinguish between mfr date and the date they hit the streets.
Faber:
If you look at the numbers we have come up with in these threads you can see how far off widely circulated tables like the one Homer posted and the one on the Faber site are.
I personally believe they are off because of the prevailing underlying false assumption that script logos came in in 1984. And that block logos went through 1983.
It is also critical to distinguish between mfr date and the date they hit the streets.
Faber:
I was just looking at the numbers we got to summarize the findings so far by year and what jumped out at me was I don't see any numbers for 1983 after September.
Nothing above L15000.....
Then 1984 is L22000 ???
Kind of a big gap there of 7,000 guitars.
Nothing above L15000.....
Then 1984 is L22000 ???
Kind of a big gap there of 7,000 guitars.
Homer J. Simpson
Well-known member
... so far. I feel we are running out of useful (=complete) data points now and need to wait a bit for more guitars coming up on the usual platforms.
More or less the whole year 1983 in this table (it's really the same, vintagejapanguitars.com just got it from Faber or vice versa, no idea) is crammed in at the wrong spot because...
... exactly. Due do the lack of examples, the 4-digit guitars are not thoroughly checked for that yet I think? Anyway, I think we need just a little more data to create a new table that has at least the transitions 82/83/84 somewhat closer to reality.
...and what streets they hit.
Much of the ripples in the timeline were caused by the UK "incident" I think. Speaking of which (only somewhat related)...Here's a video about yet another 1981 ST80 that got a series of strange modifications (for such a guitar) that seems to have started out (just as strangely) with a Goldstar 3-piece script logo with (even stranger) the "world" slogan (which is the related part, when may that guitar have hit UK streets and how old was it when it did?):
Of course it's impossible to tell what's really up with that but it's like all of the weirdness of that era is represented in that one guitar.
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I've got L16609 & L19744 on my code listI was just looking at the numbers we got to summarize the findings so far by year and what jumped out at me was I don't see any numbers for 1983 after September.
Nothing above L15000.....
Then 1984 is L22000 ???
Kind of a big gap there of 7,000 guitars.
OK. I need to find those and add them to the list on the serial number thread.
Thank you!!!
Updated:
1984 Fender Style Serial Numbers
Thank you!!!
Updated:
1984 Fender Style Serial Numbers
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Someone gave it the "Extra Tokai" treatment with the locking nut and the MKII pickups.
I finally found a reference to what they mean when they use “Tokai” as an adjective…
From the 1987 Vol 13 catalog:
“When speaking of ST, it is a product with such confidence that it is often referred to as Tokai.”
So that was a very confident ST80. LOL Now it is just a classic strat beast of a guitar as it should have always been.
I started our own table that we can add to and poke holes in.
Gives us something to shoot at and work on.
Serial Number Table
Gives us something to shoot at and work on.
Serial Number Table
Homer J. Simpson
Well-known member
Somewhere on these pages the question came up what the overall output of Tokai was, and Sigmania wrote in the list "if all the numbers were used". We'll probably never know for sure and we're not super confident how exactly the numbers were used yet (I think) but to put that into some relation:
The output numbers for other factories on the net are almost never backed up by solid sources or the sources have vanished from the web so this might all be far from facts but I found one (forum post) mention that Ensenada was churning out 650 guitars per day in 2000. At 260 working days per year (5-day week) that would be 169,000 guitars per year. In some other article about the history of Fender Japan it was mentioned that Fujigen could not deliver the 5,000 guitars/month at some point, so they brought Dyna into the game (who later had the same trouble when Fujigen stopped making Fenders). In some older Fujigen history it was mentioned that their production peaked at 10,000 guitars/month at some point.
We don't know how much (or if any) of the big Terawaki-cho factory was used for electric guitar production and we have no idea about the capacity, how many people were working there etc. so this isn't comparable with Fujigen or Fender in any way. But I tend to think 10,000 guitars in a year doesn't sound that much, even though I always wonder where they all ended up, or how many people who don't post on the internet have 50 of them, and that's just their ST100 collection.
The output numbers for other factories on the net are almost never backed up by solid sources or the sources have vanished from the web so this might all be far from facts but I found one (forum post) mention that Ensenada was churning out 650 guitars per day in 2000. At 260 working days per year (5-day week) that would be 169,000 guitars per year. In some other article about the history of Fender Japan it was mentioned that Fujigen could not deliver the 5,000 guitars/month at some point, so they brought Dyna into the game (who later had the same trouble when Fujigen stopped making Fenders). In some older Fujigen history it was mentioned that their production peaked at 10,000 guitars/month at some point.
We don't know how much (or if any) of the big Terawaki-cho factory was used for electric guitar production and we have no idea about the capacity, how many people were working there etc. so this isn't comparable with Fujigen or Fender in any way. But I tend to think 10,000 guitars in a year doesn't sound that much, even though I always wonder where they all ended up, or how many people who don't post on the internet have 50 of them, and that's just their ST100 collection.
That was just rosewood board ST guitars. Does not account for Gibson copies, PB basses, etc. Probably twice the rosewood board number at least? Somewhere I read that the production was roughly 50/50 Gibson and Fender copies at Tokai. Who knows?
Homer J. Simpson
Well-known member
Wasn't that only ~6000-7000 L-numbers in 1982, and that included TEs, PBs and JBs? As for the maple neck guitars (and basses), the numbers seem much lower for some reason so I picked 10,000 as a ballpark number matching the thread title (and the comparison with Fender). Rounding up the G-style guitar serials in the same way would probably give us an idea what the ratio was.
Edit: At a 50/50 ratio that would be 20,000 guitars, so ~1,600 guitars per month, at a time when they probably had peak capacity anyway.
Edit: At a 50/50 ratio that would be 20,000 guitars, so ~1,600 guitars per month, at a time when they probably had peak capacity anyway.
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I think I found the source of the numbers in this table from back in 2012 or before.
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I am assuming that is Gottfried. He may weigh in on it. And the original source my be what Peter was turning up early on. I still don't have his book, so am not sure if that was the source or not? But looks like it originated from at least as early as 2012.
1982 JB50 MRR
SN L03355
https://buyee.jp/mercari/item/m31651069636?conversionType=Mercari_DirectSearch
SN L03355
https://buyee.jp/mercari/item/m31651069636?conversionType=Mercari_DirectSearch
Attachments
SN L00505
Body: 2=1 GS X
Switch: 1D 1 (December 1981)
Tokai springy sounds st50r gs 1982(Jan-Feb) L00000# Final Pro Spec
Body: 2=1 GS X
Switch: 1D 1 (December 1981)
Tokai springy sounds st50r gs 1982(Jan-Feb) L00000# Final Pro Spec
Attachments
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