Tokai Humbucker Pickup Evolution History

[Sigmania]

I am having trouble figuring out some of my pickups and thought it would be a good idea to start a thread documenting the various humbucker pickups used in Love Rocks, Reborns, etc.

I am not sure at all what came first, etc. so I will just jump in and try to post pics where I can.

My Les Paul Reborn is the oldest Tokai LP I have and it has black & white Goto PAFs





My 1981 LS120 has DiMarzio PAF uncovered humbuckers.





My 1985 LS80 (?) has mystery unmarked pickups that I suspect are Tokai 57PAFs





And I have a mid 90s (?) LS55 that has some odd looking pickups. Have been told they are MK2s. I am still not 100% The bridge and neck pickup look different. Here are the pics:





Would love more info and pics/reviews of the other humbuckers Tokai made. Thanks!

 

[Reborn Old]

Gotoh MkI on lowest models depending on model# and year, from 1978 to the end of 1985.
Gotoh 57 PAF in LS-80's to mid 1983, and then often to 1985,
Dimarzios in LS-100 to LS-150 models to end of 1985.
LS-200 pickups were customer choice, usually Gibson.

All catalogs list pickup types for each model and year if you're not sure.
The only deviations from catalogs are use of Gotoh or 57 PAF's interchangeably on LS-80 and lower models, (especially late 1983-1985)

Not sure when Keiyo pickups came into use.

The top LS model from about 2000 on featured Holmes pickups,
and JM Rolphs later on.
I'm not sure what pickups were used in Korea or China ALS models.

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I don't think your 1985 pickups are 57 PAF's. They typically have
silver-grey backs and black PAF labels (or label artifacts if removed)
and both pickups would be identical outside of lead lengths, with 6 pole screws projecting from rear covers.

Check to see if solder joints at pots were re-soldered to be sure.
ie- evidence of flux residue, cold joints or little solder beads near solder joint.

 

[Sigmania]

Thanks Reborn Old! Great info. Now I would love to collect pics of each.

If any one has pics, please post them here.

Also comments on how they sound would be good.

I have noticed that the neck pickup on my 79 LP Reborn is pretty lifeless. Have noticed others have changed theirs out, while I really like the bridge pickup.

The DiMarzios in my LS120 sound great to my ears, but have read about differences in them and wondered if it was how they were paired up with different wood tops (mahogany vs maple)?

 

[luis]

Adding some info about pickups used in Tokai LS series.

1979-80. Goto siver back plate (LS80) and gold plate (LS-50<760)
1981-85: Gotoh MKII (LS50-60) and 57 PAF (LS80), Di Marzio PAF (LS100-120-150 and some 200).

Maybe LS60s were given with 57 PAF somewhere in 80s, have to check.

 

[Sigmania]

So here are some pics I lifted from other threads (hope that's ok) but wanted to have them here so it was easier to see.

Tell me if I got this right. :wink:

Pre Keiyo Goto MK2?



Pre Keiyo MK3 Bridge ?



MK2 Keiyo

 

[jacco]

Top one is Goto

 

[Sigmania]

Thanks luis. I just edited it and added that for the MK2.

Is Goto the same company as Gotoh?

 

[luis]

Yes they are.
We say Goto because it says so o the back of early LS models whereas recent 2000s say Gotoh. Japanese companys have strong ties with other japanese companies so they use the product for ages. I have some issues regarding 1984-85 untill 1995 because it was a more obscure periodo with fewer examples shown than recent and first era. JUst remember LS series nearly disspeared from catalogs to let Superstrats shine,those were the times (Shred time with Steve Vai, Tafolla ,Macalpine and all that Shrapnell records legion Ibanez endoorseered).

 

[Peter Mac]

Hi guys,

the other thing to take into account are the bobbins.
eg.
Goto Mk2 78-80 LS-50+60 = double cream stamp on plate
Goto PAF 78-80 LS-80 = zebra+cover stamp on plate
DiMz PAF 78-80 LS-100-150 = dbl cream engraved plate

Tokai Mk2 81-83 LS-50+60 = double cream transfer on plate
Tokai PAF 81-83 LS-80 = zebra+cover transfer on plate
DiMz PAF 81-83 LS-100-150 = dbl cream engraved plate

Tokai Mk2 84-85 LS-50 = double cream transfer on plate
Tokai Mk2 84-85 LS-60 = zebra transfer on plate
Tokai PAF 84-85 LS-80 = dbl black+cover transfer on plate
DiMz PAF 84-85 LS-100-150 = dbl cream engraved plate

Zebra refers to 1 black 'screw' bobbin and one cream 'bung' bobbin. If the screws are in the cream bobbin, this is reverse zebra....or dbl cream.

Interestingly, Larry DiMazzio waited 20 years for the Gibson PAF patent to end before copyrighting the "Double Cream" configuration.

Even more interesting, when Gibsons' humbucker was given it's patent number in 1961 , it was a different number used on the "Patent Number" transfer on the bottom of the plate.

regards
Peter Mac

 

[Sigmania]

Very cool PM! Thanks!

 

[loudmouse]

What about the "goto" stamped on plate but with double row of hex screws on white bobbins, like on my 1980 "inky" Greco-ish Love Rock?

Are those mkII or something else? They sound great but are microphonic and squeal like crazy at high gain.

 

[Sigmania]

Interestingly, Larry DiMazzio waited 20 years for the Gibson PAF patent to end before copyrighting the "Double Cream" configuration.

Would love to know more about this. Do you have a source?

 

[Peter Mac]

Hi siggy

This I thought was pretty much general knowledge.
This is also why Gibson, Fralin, Armstrong, Duncan and a host of other pickup makers don't offer Double Cream as an option for their pickups.
Double white (refridgerator) is the closest they get.
Larry based his PAF from the double cream PAF's that came with his 1959 Les Paul.

regards
Peter Mac

 

[muccax]

hi
i got a 1985 ls 80... with curcuit board and goto pick up
all original .... and 18 % headstock and nitro ...veneer top
cool color teaburst







i got it from a guy in England
WHO said i was a ls 150 ????? he said he got i from new
but i have no proff of that ,,,
never seen that before on a 1985
all the best
otto

 

[Peter Mac]

Hi guys,

The finish on Muccax' LS-80 is called Honeyburst or Old Sunburst (OS).
The cavity shot clearly showing the differences between the facia and the underneath is a perfect example of what I've been saying to other Forum members.
I do hope you find the other 82% of your headstock, :lol: tuning will be such a ***** otherwise. I use 18deg for the pitch.
This guitar really is a fabulous example of the mid-80's LoveRocks.
Congrats

Peter Mac

 

[Brodon]

Great post it is, I really like this info..Well, It is nice feeling to read this post and curious to know about your guitars...........

 

[Sjofar]

Hi, I also have pickups with LP-AR and LP-AF on the back.
I'm playing a 2009 LS85 Gold top.
Are they MK2's from Gotoh?

Please advise.

 

[Sjofar]

It's a disgrace!
I'm playing for 40 years now and only know 3 chords? :-?

 

[jacco]

Well, less talking and more practicing then! I was a guitar god after only a few months of playing

 

[Sjofar]

Can you help me with my question regarding the pickup's ?