Love Rock Headstock Veneer?

[Sigmania]

1981 LS200 off Reverb.

Nicks on side of headstock. I am see just black inside the nicks. Looks like plastic material to my eyes.

https://reverb.com/item/10781483-tokai-love-rock-ls-200-1981-custom-order

 

[Sigmania]

1980 LS200 with what looks like a black plastic veneer headstock. Note edges of wear on tip.

https://yamauchi63133.wixsite.com/hikidaore/ls200-os-1980-the-japanese-e

 

[Sigmania]

Another LS200 with black plastic veneer and showing shrinkage (finished wood clearly visible on both edges of headstock.

http://mycoolguitars.com/tokai-ls-200/

 

[Sigmania]

So it is clear that it is not true that LS200s don't have plastic veneer headstocks. Examples I have seen from 1981 and before all seem to.

Now I would love to see a headstock on an LS200 from 1982-1984 and see if it is wood, which is the theory I am working off of at this point.

 

[Sigmania]

This one seems to support my theory...

1985 LS200. Looks like wood peeking through the slightest of nicks around the edges. I have not been seeing that with the plastic veneer which seems quite thick. Around 1/16" it seems.

https://reverb.com/item/30294146-tokai-ls-200-1985-vintage-sunburst

 

[Sigmania]

Another LS200 from 1980 clearly showing shrinkage of the plastic veneer.

https://yamauchi63133.wixsite.com/hikidaore/ls200-cs-no-7-1980-e

 

[Sigmania]

And a 1983 LS150 belonging to villager from his website that appears to show wood grain through the lacquer finish?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/146163744@N08/albums/72157710194470156

 

[Sigmania]

On the headstocks that don't have a plastic veneer, which seemed to change sometime during 1981/82(?), there is likely a thin wood veneer that is painted black rather than just painting the wood of the neck.

The reason for a veneer is to cover the joints in the headstock since they are constructed with two thin "wings" on the sides where the headstock curves. Without a veneer, over time the wood would likely show a joint. Guessing Gibson figured this out some time ago.

So: 1979/plastic veneer/1981/1982/wood veneer/1985

 

[Sigmania]

Looks like the process on the wood veneer involves at least touching up the edges of the veneer with black paint/stain after it is glued on because when you look closely at these wood veneer headstocks you can see black paint over-painted onto the stained mahogany in places.

So the paint, at least on the edges, came after the satin on the neck it seems.

I am betting when the veneer was glued on it already was black and the Tokai logo already in place or at least the holes cut out. Would be very time consuming to paint around the logo. Unless it were a stain that the logo did not absorb.

Also note that the joint of the wing in the photos below.

 

[Sigmania]

I read on the Gear Page that Gibson started using a plasticized fiberboard rather than a holly veneer sometime in the 60s?

I can't confirm that, and not sure what modern Gibsons have on them.

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...erial-is-the-gibson-headstock-veneer.1520862/

 

[guitar hiro]

all the LS inkies I have owned have a thin, wood veneer on the head stock face.

these are visible from either side of the head stock, or from the open book end of the head stock.

the veneer is covered by the cherry red color that covers the side & the end of the head stock but the color looks a few shades lighter on the veneer, as compared to the mahogany head stock itself, where that same cherry red color looks a few shades darker.

 

[Sigmania]

Thanks for that info. Do you have the dates for the ones with the wood veneer?

And if you could post any pictures here that would help sort this mystery out.

Many thanks!

 

[guitar hiro]

all my inkie LS examples have had serial #s that start with 000****, 010****, and 110****.

Supposedly 1980 & 1981 examples.

 

[Sigmania]

Cool. Would love to see pictures showing the veneer if you can post some.

I don't know much about the inkies. I have never owned or held one, but I have read that they were made in a different factory than the Tokais that have impressed serial numbers, and that the construction may vary some from the other Tokais. Is that accurate?

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=20740

 

[guitar hiro]

here is another TF thread concerning 'inkies'

Note where TF member 'Peter Mac' chimes in concerning serial #s.

http://tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=23046&highlight=ls60&sid=702d0f42ecbad4c1d253d132b38dfd13


There is no mention (by Peter Mac) of a 000**** serial range example.


I have one LS inkie with a 000**** serial #, as mentioned in the thread from January this year.

 

[Sigmania]

So here is a photo of a 1980 LS50 "inkie" (serial number inked instead of embossed in the back of the headstock) with an obvious wood veneer.

I would have to say here that the rule that was emerging re: plastic type veneer up to some time in 1981/82(?) and then either a very thin and well hidden wood veneer or painted wood may not apply at all to "inkies".

While I am no expert on inkies, it seems clear that their production was different than the typical runs of Love Rocks. So production standards were apparently different. For example, I have seen pictures showing dowels joining the neck tenon to the body which I have not seen in a non inkie Love Rock, but have seen in other MIJ LP brands.

From my reading here on this forum, I believe inkies were actually made in different towns (Nagano for inkies, and Hammamatsu for the typical "run of the mill" Love Rocks).

Not sure of the arrangement with Tokai for producing these, but I have heard it was similar to contracting with a factory that produced guitars for different brands, a practice common at this time in Japan I believe.

That said, here is a picture of an inkie showing the wood veneer construction of the headstock. I have not seen this on non inkie Love Rocks of the period and if anyone else comes across photos please post them.

 

[Sigmania]

And on the subject of inkies, I beleive this may be a more conforming copy?

Looks like a 1980 (?) LS50 inkie (serial number 010xxxx) with what appears could be a plastic veneer headstock?

I can't be sure based on the photos, but looks like the smooth surface and edges of plastic veneers.

If it is plastic, then that would comply with what I had been seeing in the non inkie Love Rocks.

1980 Tokai Love Rock LS-50 RARE Old Sunburst (OS) Top Color Nearly 40 Year Vintage 'Old Wood' | Reverb

 

[Gonchan]

違いの理由は製造年や型番ではありません。
製造工場が違うからです。
シリアルナンバーの上から2番目が0の場合は東海工場となります。そしてプラスチック製
連続ナンバーの上から2番目が1の場合は長野工場となります。

 

[Sigmania]

違いの理由は製造年や型番ではありません。
製造工場が違うからです。
シリアルナンバーの上から2番目が0の場合は東海工場となります。そしてプラスチック製
連続ナンバーの上から2番目が1の場合は長野工場となります。

 

[Sigmania]

All of the guitars discussed before post #31 were made in Hamamatsu.

guitar hiro was adding that the inkies from Nagano that he has owned had a wood veneer face. I have seen inkies from Nagano with plastic faces as well and gave an example above in post #37.

Please look at the model numbers below. None of these were made in Nagano.



Plastic veneer:
LS80GT (1979)
LS80GT (1980) eBay in Japan
LS80 (1980) Fretboard.co.uk
LS80 (1980) Reverb
LS200 (1980) Cliff's as seen on Flickr
LS200 (1980) yamauchi web site
LS200 (1980) yamauchi site
LS200 (1980) mycoolguitars site
LS100ON (1981)
LS200 (1981) Reverb

Wood or wood veneer:
LS80 (1982) with a solid flamed top, FEB, one piece body
LS80 (1983) solid flamed top (mine)
LS150 (1983) villager's web site
LS80? (1984) another member's solid flame top, one piece back, no FEB present
LS200 (1985) Reverb