Absolute Noob

[spectrum]

Hi, for the past couple of weeks I've been, looking at picking up a Les Paul copy. Generally I've looked at the Epiphone Standards and the the Elites.

I've just started to take a closer look at the Tokai line, which has so far been pretty daunting. I'm basically looking for a guitar under $1200, Canadian, That looks at least a helluva a lot like a les paul, and is made up in the same way. That is Mahogany body with Maple top, Mahogany Neck, and Rosewood fingerboard.

It seems to me that a vintage Tokai, would fit the bill pretty well. Of course I could be totally wrong, as I have no solid idea about the various model numbers and the whole history of Tokai.

For example whats the history of the LS-80 model? Do they make a Love Rock with that name now, and where do they make it, and what is it made out of? And what is this Les Paul Reborn?

It also seems there are different versions depending on where you are. What make the Canadian Love Rocks, Canadian? And where online other than jsdguitars might I be able to order a Tokai?

Most of what I asked probably seems pretty incoherent, but if you could answer any of it, I'd really appreaciate it. Thanks.

 

[hans-j?rgen]

It seems to me that a vintage Tokai, would fit the bill pretty well. Of course I could be totally wrong, as I have no solid idea about the various model numbers and the whole history of Tokai.

You could also consider a new MIJ Love Rock, but I don't know how much they cost in Canadian dollars.

For example whats the history of the LS-80 model? Do they make a Love Rock with that name now, and where do they make it, and what is it made out of? And what is this Les Paul Reborn?

The numbers are only referring to the price in Yen, so it depends on the year which specs a LS 80 had or has. A Reborn from 1978 to early 1980 probably has more expensive features due to inflation than a new LS 80. If we had translated versions of all Japanese catalogues on the main site, it would be easier to follow the changes in the model numbers, but for now there are only a few years available in English, too.

It also seems there are different versions depending on where you are. What make the Canadian Love Rocks, Canadian? And where online other than jsdguitars might I be able to order a Tokai?

Obviously Canada allows to sell exact Les Paul copies while the U.S. don't, that's the main reason for these Canadian Love Rocks (all with maple necks and Nashville bridges/posts, it seems). It's also possible to order directly from Japanese dealers who sell outside their country or private persons who sell them either on ebay or Yahoo Japan.

 

[sneakyjapan]

if you do decide to buy on line, I just wanna say I`ve sent several guitars from Japan to Montreal where my family lives. I`ve used insured postal service and it takes about a week door to door. So far there have been no problems and no additional charges. I write them up as gifts and send them airmail.

 

[JSD]

And where online other than jsdguitars might I be able to order a Tokai?

Hehe, should I be offended here??? :lol:

If your looking for new Japanese Love Rock models that are pretty close to the "real thing" then you'll have to order them from a Japanese dealer. A dealer sending items marked as "gift" can get into alot of trouble not to mention the item can be siezed so be careful of that.

 

[spectrum]

And where online other than jsdguitars might I be able to order a Tokai?

Hehe, should I be offended here??? :lol:

If your looking for new Japanese Love Rock models that are pretty close to the "real thing" then you'll have to order them from a Japanese dealer. A dealer sending items marked as "gift" can get into alot of trouble not to mention the item can be siezed so be careful of that.

Actually, I just want to be able to compare is all. Thanks to everyone who's replied so far.

I'm now thinking plaintop, like LS50 or LS60 I guess, either new or vintage. Either of which would be cheaper than an Epiphone Elite, but at least similar in construction.

 

[ian]

Don?t know about comparison with Epi Elite, but at $1200 I?d definitely be looking at 1978-79 Tokai Reborn-LS80/LS100/LS120 vs. Gibson.

If construction is important then note recent Gibson Std & Classic have weight relief holes (c.1990-current), and earlier Deluxe etc. variously had pancake body, multi-piece maple neck, & volute etc. (c.1972-1980?s) ? all of which is different to original Les Paul (1952-60) ? Tokai is much closer in that respect (older MIJ at least). Gibson Historic might be better comparison, eg R7 Goldtop (albeit maybe $1900 used), or R8 & R9 if you want burst finish (from $2500 to $3500 & upwards). Or if price matters, you could just buy a good original 1978 LS50 Reborn around $750 & be done with it. 2cents :-? .

Ian.

 

[whitehall]

Go right to the source, Ishibashi in Japan is a huge company with many stores all over Japan They import the full Tokai Japan line all over the world. They will be much cheaper than any local dealer will be. They ship Via EMS and their guitars arrive in the usa in 3 days. You will find numerous links on this forum to them. Oh, and the difference between the Japan and Korean Les Pauls ? It's like night and day.

 

[spectrum]

Wow, Its news to me that the current gibbys arent quite 'authentic', it makes you wonder why they're going after everyone with a C&D.

Now, what is the differenec between an ls50,100,120, and 150, other than price.

For example this particular ls120 seems interesting

http://www.digimart.net/gk_detail.do?instrument_id=DS00077137

when translated in babelfish, they talk about a deep neck joint, is that one of the differences between the various models. I'm aware that the number of pieces for the body and top vary, but the neck always seems to be a one piece.

 

[spectrum]

Ok, so I figured I can spend probably CDN$ 1020 or about 88,000 YEN, before shipping and handling from Japan, and the Various communist duties and taxes we have down here in canuckia.

http://www.cyborg.ne.jp/~universe/tokai_guitar/t_ls/ls75_vf.html

The above is an LS75, Now it looks like a nice worn cherry sunburst, but it also says violin finish, I dont understand That, unless its just an error.

And the price without case is 75000 YEN or CDN$872, is that generally a good price.

Thanks again.

 

[fievel]

Hey Spectrum,

The LS75 link you showed us was in fact in Violin Finish.. but you can choose to get it in Cherry Sunburst as well and looks a bit like this:

Cherry Sunburst LS80F

Regarding the price... 75000 is the list price. I believe they would get you a better price if you ask them. Anyhow, you may wish to check out the Ishibashi shop, with already discounted prices and superb service that many can attest to.

Ishibashi

Good luck! Let us know what you decide on!

 

[hans-j?rgen]

Now, what is the differenec between an ls50,100,120, and 150, other than price.

For example a LS 80 and a LS 100 only differ in the pickups judging from the 1986 catalogue descriptions: Tokai/Gotoh in the lower priced model, two DiMarzio PAFs in the higher one. The next step called "Super Edition" (LS 150) had a DiMarzio Super Distortion at the bridge and a PAF at the neck, the LS 200 came with a set of Seymour Duncan's SH-1. The last two also had lightweight aluminium hardware and of course a solid flamed maple top. It's not mentioned in that catalogue which models had fret binding, but probably only the "Super Edition" ones did, same is true for nitro lacquer finish.

when translated in babelfish, they talk about a deep neck joint, is that one of the differences between the various models.

That feature has never been mentioned in the Tokai specs, as far as I know, so you have to inspect the neck cavity for yourself to find out. I think all standard Love Rocks have the same "medium" sized tenon that reaches the edge of the cavity, but does not go underneath the pickup itself.

I'm aware that the number of pieces for the body and top vary, but the neck always seems to be a one piece.

No, not necessarily, because I once played a Tokai LS 50 in a shop back in the late 80's or early 90's that had a three-piece neck. And if you look closely at the available catalogues in English, it's always explicitely mentioned when a model has a one-piece neck. If they don't mention this feature (as well as others like a solid maple top), it could mean that this model doesn't have it. The problem is that there are not enough translations of older catalogues to compare.

 

[spectrum]

Ok so I've decided I'm going to buy in August, and as aresult my monetary limit is quite a bit higher.

So now I'm thinkin LS200. But it seems perhaps I could get a good instrument and a good investment if I could pickup a pre-1983 Love Rock, something above an ls50 model number.

But I have question regarding the tops. I dont really mind the flames, its just that I especially like the plaintop for some reason, they look some how more vintage-y. So my question is are there any L120-LS200 with a plaintop, either new or pre-'83?

Thanks again, you guys have been real helpful so far clearing things up for me. If it wasnt for you guys I would have been gearing up to buy and Epi Elite.

 

[hans-j?rgen]

But I have question regarding the tops. I dont really mind the flames, its just that I especially like the plaintop for some reason, they look some how more vintage-y. So my question is are there any L120-LS200 with a plaintop, either new or pre-'83?

Hmm, good question... I would think they all have solid maple tops with flames one way or the other. For example my LS 120 shows a mix of quilted and flamed graining, you could also call it curly. So it's not always the straight, sometimes boring, sometimes spectacular "tigerstripes" style what they used (because that's too rare and expensive anyhow).

 

[spectrum]

But I have question regarding the tops. I dont really mind the flames, its just that I especially like the plaintop for some reason, they look some how more vintage-y. So my question is are there any L120-LS200 with a plaintop, either new or pre-'83?

Hmm, good question... I would think they all have solid maple tops with flames one way or the other. For example my LS 120 shows a mix of quilted and flamed graining, you could also call it curly. So it's not always the straight, sometimes boring, sometimes spectacular "tigerstripes" style what they used (because that's too rare and expensive anyhow).

What year is your ls120 though?

And another question regarding the ebony fingerboard of the LS200, people generally say its brighter, which I'm fine with, would probably help the jazz tones quite a bit.

I just wanna make sure its not so incredibly different sounding that, no matter what I can't channel Duane Allman, or Gary Moore.

 

[hans-j?rgen]

What year is your ls120 though?

Oops, sorry for overlooking your reply... it's from 1981, here's a high resolution picture (1.7 MB) of her and three other LS 60 models in our rehearsal room:

http://home.arcor.de/hans-juergen.bardenhagen/03240033.jpg

I just wanna make sure its not so incredibly different sounding that, no matter what I can't channel Duane Allman, or Gary Moore.

I've read this, too, but haven't played a Les Paul with ebony fretboard either, so I don't know how much this would influence the overall brightness of the guitar. You could also try to compensate that with different pickups etc., so that shouldn't hold you back from buying a LS 200 if you can.