Bacchus?59 clone

stratman323 · Post by **stratman323** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:50 am

Does fret edge binding serve any purpose at all? It seems a waste of effort to me.

Mike

Nani · Post by **Nani** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:16 am

throstur wrote:I am now sitting with my friends Gibson Limited Edition 1958 Standard in my lap. It seems to me that the headstock angle is 14? on this guitar and it has fret end bindings.

If you are not sure what specs are correct, it's probably not a good idea to level criticism. It is supposed to have binding nibs, fer feck's sake.

throstur · Post by **throstur** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:58 pm

I did not intend to go into argument with some wise guy here. I am here for fun and to try to learn and exchange options with decent people. I have my opinions, you have yours.

However you got to me with your grumpy attitude and NIBS?and here is my opinion and my last word on your beloved Gibson's with or without NIBS!

I have a very strong opinion on the great marketing scam Gibson and Fender, the two leading names and designs in the electric guitar industry, have pulled off for the last years. Instead of dealing with their hit and miss quality control they have gone into what they call "relicing" and "Custom Shop". Grown up people trying to fake things, trying to make new things look old! Grown up people, musicians and collectors falling over backwards buying this crap for heaps of money! What they are saying to guitar players that love and cherish the timeless design of Fender and Gibson is: You can buy our low end crap for lots of money or you can buy our ?reliced custom shop hype? for loads of money! It?s really hard to believe that intelligent people are supporting this scam. No wonder that guitar players are looking at other possibilities.

Only two of the Gibson guitars I have bought were worth the money I payed for (almost). The rest was just not good guitars, dead sounding, dull, characterless stuff. All but one had some issue: twisted neck, wrong neck to body angle, wrong headstock angles, crappy electrics, falling out inlays, cracks, faulty tuners and more. This is about twenty% of guitars without any issue.

I have owned and played all kinds of guitars, I have set up and repaired hundreds of guitars, I have BUILT guitars! My favourite guitar cost me around 800USD AND I built IT MYSELF.

JohnA · Post by **JohnA** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:06 pm

Nani like a good argument, don't take it personally, he wouldn't be happy if he had no-one to argue with

throstur · Post by **throstur** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:25 pm

Hahahahah, I enjoyed this, thanks Nani

And, yes stratman323, fret end bindings are absolutely useless

Nani · Post by **Nani** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:01 pm

throstur wrote:I did not intend to go into argument with some wise guy here. I am here for fun and to try to learn and exchange options with decent people. I have my opinions, you have yours.

I am not presenting any opinions for you to argue with. I am offering you facts about guitars, in particular the presence of binding nibs being correct.

It's a small point but next thing you know that mistake gets repeated and the hype and misperception of Baccus/Navigator/Tokai as a "dead perfect clone" grows and grows without basis.

What you think about Gibson or Fender or Scientology doesn't have much to do with getting the specs and facts right before making sweeping statements about a certain brand.

throstur · Post by **throstur** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:09 pm

I am not presenting any opinions for you to argue with. I am offering you facts about guitars, in particular the presence of binding nibs being correct.
It's a small point but next thing you know that mistake gets repeated and the hype and misperception of Baccus/Navigator/Tokai as a "dead perfect clone" grows and grows without basis.

I agree with you. There are misleading information and errors in my opening letter of this thread. I now know better, thanks to you and others here at the Forum

In view of this I am going to edit my opening letter and take out known errors to prevent misunderstanding.

youami · Post by **youami** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:54 pm

Here's a lespaulforum thread showing a couple of original 50s les pauls, can't see any binding nibs:

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showt ... p?t=146645

Here's a link showing several late 50s sunbursts with no binding nibs as far as I can see:

http://www.provide.net/~cfh/lpsun.html

Why should a 50s les paul replica have binding nibs if many of the originals didn't?

leadguitar_323 · Post by **leadguitar_323** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:02 am

Hmmmm, love the gold tops and yep.....no fret edge binding.....although they could have been refretted....

I would also like to point out the thickness of the finish on the p90 equipped goldie.......thicker than some poly ones i've seen...

Mick

throstur · Post by **throstur** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:26 am

Yes, my assumption that the LP,s before 1960 did not have nibs/fretend bindings was based on pictures and books I have about Gibson. My books do not show fret end bindings on any of the guitars. There are no spec sheets in the books I have, only lots of quality pictures and historic "facts" about the people involved in making these guitars, who played them and so on. Nani seems very confident about this, would be nice to know how he can be so sure.

leadguitar_323 · Post by **leadguitar_323** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:05 am

More to the point.....who cares....

Mick

youami · Post by **youami** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:32 am

leadguitar_323 wrote:More to the point.....who cares....

Mick

I agree! I'd give my left nut for a bacchus les paul like the one in this thread, fret-edge binding or not.

prsman · Post by **prsman** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:58 am

simply stunning - congrats.

How's she sound?

TONE REPORT PLEASE!!!!!!!

throstur · Post by **throstur** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:15 am

I am thrilled about this guitar, it is, as can be seen on the pictures extremely well built guitar. It has by far the "deepest", longest sustain of all guitars "of similar design"

I have had the pleasure to play. It has rich harmonics and you can squeeze out these wonderful overtones if you dig into the strings

The pickups are so good that I have not bothered to try out my set of SD Seth Lovers. I will probably stick the SD?s in one day to compare. I am old fashioned and it always takes some time for me to get used to a new guitar, the weight the style the controls e.t.c. It is NOT difficult with this one though, I somehow bonded to it right away

throstur · Post by **throstur** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:17 am

youami wrote: http://www.provide.net/~cfh/lpsun.html

Interesting, if you follow this link you can see this picture that shows the relationship between the bridge and the volume knobs on an original 1956-1960 Les Paul.

Here is a picture that shows the relationship between the bridge and the volume knobs on my Bacchus:

It is vital in IMO that this relationship is right for guitar of this design to adjust and work properly.

I QUOTE DIRECTLY FROM THE LINK ABOVE: Since the late 1970s, Gibson has made many reissue Les Paul Standards which look very much like the original 1958, 1959, 1960 Les Paul Standard model. So how do you tell the difference? One easy way is by the positioning of the stop tailpiece. Gibson has never gotten this right on any of their reissue Les Pauls. On a 1956 to 1960 Les Paul with a stop tailpiece, if you run an imaginary line from the center of the Low-E tailpiece stud through the center of the High-E tailpiece stud and continue that line, the line will touch the north edge of the Neck volume knob and the south edge of the Bridge volume knob. On reissues the line through the center of the tailpiece studs runs right into the Neck volume knob (the line is no where near the Bridge volume knob). END OF QUOTE