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Are there mistakes in the LoveRock Serial Numbers???
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supernout
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
...the pickup cavities are different on my "inky" ...


Yup, and the proud faker even left his signature inside. This is a prove, man
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ochay
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I give up !!!!



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ian
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ochay ? ha, ? no need to feel like giving up (banging head against a brick wall) lol ? exchanges like this are good for us ? this discussion does mean I?m taking more notice of the Greco argument now .

There are clearly various possibilities here, but this thread has done a good job of raising awareness ? should prompt us to watch for additional evidence .

Ian.
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ian
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

?1990? Greco, appears to have one characteristic hole in neck cavity ? SN appears to be inked over an impression. Just info .

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3753209625&indexURL=5&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting

Ian.
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ian
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This one also appears to have an inked number.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2384&item=3753383033&rd=1

Of course, no pics inside neck cavity (no reason for seller to show that), so don?t know if it has those ?Greco? holes. But doesn?t look to me like a new or recent guitar, can?t see any other signs of faking, alteration, or non-Tokai manufacture ? looks to me entirely typical for pre-1980 MIJ Tokai Reborn (inc. case) ... CB fits in cavity, ?60? Fretboard, double-rings, square-spacing of tuner-pegs, Reborn case etc. Anyone see a "fake" here ?

Ian.
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supernout
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems that they started with "inkies" in '78 and changed it during the year. Nothing to be worried about. The 001 stated in the '78 catalog is inked as well (custom cs) and I can't remember either having seen any impressed '78 nor any thin lettered '78 LPR logo. But I've only seen about a dozen.

Anyway, it should be rather difficult to fake a more than 20 year old electric guitar. Not because of the woods or looks but an exact replication of hardware parts of course. That would make the whole thing too expensive. Tokais ain't that much profitable like Fender Pre-CBS strats or '58 - '60 Gibbo LPS, thank God
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ian
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to resurrect an old & occasionally acrimonious thread, but here is some newer info. on inked numbers ? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2384&item=7331982894&rd=1

The eBay advert & images may soon be gone, so I?ll describe it for posterity ? advert is from ?Japanoldguitar? (who usually knows what he?s talking about), shows Sunburst Les Paul copy which seller describes as follows ?

??1978 Burny FLG60 made at Tokai factory at same time as Tokai LS60 Les Paul Reborn?You are viewing a 1978 Burny FLG60. This Burny is made at Tokai factory. Burny/Fernandes don't have factory, so their guitars are made at some factory as OEM. A part of Burny LP were made at Tokai factory in late '70s. This Burny's construction and parts are as well as '70s Tokai LS60 Les Paul Reborn except for Logo. It has ink stamped serial numbers, double ring tuners, "LS" stamped electric board, etc as well as '70s Tokai LS. If you have a '70s Tokai guitar, you can find it was made at Tokai by these pictures ...?

In case I need to interpret that, he?s saying the inked numbers on both Tokai & Burny arise because in 1978 Burny were using the Tokai factory & apart from the headstock MOP decal the guitars used same or similar parts & same or similar construction etc. In other words ? there may be small differences between the 78 Burny & 78 Tokai, but you can expect to see them with very similar or even identical features inc. an inked number.

Just add two notes of caution ? (1) I?m just interpreting the opinion of Japanoldguitar, ie not stating any opinion of my own (hope I interpret him correctly), (2) I think it?s obvious from his choice of words that?s he read the whole of this thread & is addressing the issues raised here, & that may have influenced his opinion.

Ian.
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Skybone
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like I've got another "odd date" Love Rock. All the features point at it being a 1980 spec guitar, twin ring kluson type tuners, pointy bell TRC, PAF MkI's (with Patent Applied For stamped on the back plate), and the good old PCB in the control cavity.

The confusing thing is that the serial no. starts 01***** and is in ink, not stamped like my later LS70.

From what I can gather, the Love Rock line started in 1980, where the Reborn line finished in around 1980. My guess is that to differentiate between the two, as I'm guessing that the Reborn was early '80 and the Love Rock was late '80, so they put the "1" in as the 2nd digit of the serial no.

This is of course pure speculation on my behalf, but a look at what happened at Ibanez around that time as well, they went through massive model line up changes around 79/80.
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ned
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What would not make it a 1981?
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Skybone
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think so ned, as I've heard about some '81 guitars that had "11" as the first 2 digits of the serial no.

Using a bit of guess work, especially with the end of the Reborn series in '80, as well as the start of the Love Rock, it looks to me as though the 2nd digit of the serial no's became an indication as to when the guitar was made, i.e. "0" for the first half and "1" for the second half. This theory only works with the inked serial no's though, and like I said earlier, it is pure guess work.

I would, however, argue until the cows come home, that my "new" Love Rock is a genuine 1980 model, not a newer model made to look older/reliced.
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luis
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have discovered this in new Love Rocks:
On septembrer 2.005 begun 1 number,so it is for example 0510034. So last 5 number would be number production...... guitar produced # 10.034 this year.....
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Skybone
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still doesn't explain the confusion with the 1980/81 serial no's.

It would mean that my '80 is the 10,161st off the production line that year, which is hugely doubtful. If you said that it was the 161st off the production line in the last half of 1980, it would make a bit more sense.

To me at least.
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Peter Mac
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys,
boy this thread is getting interesting....
IMO, any pre-82 will have a serial# of ' Y00XXXX ' layout. It is a safe bet that ANY Love Rock with a varience from this is older than 82.
We do know that after 88, the first 2 numbers became the year, and it seems to have continued this way. The theory of ' YYXXXXX' with the X's being sequential year manufacture is a logical step also...my only reservation is the thought of 10,000 or more Love Rocks being produced within a year would be a herculean feat.
The inked number thing as I read the Japanoldguitar interprtation is that only the LS-60 had them - not used across the entire range - as Burny only had 3 models of LPS-style guitar. This could explain the two different serial numbers for the same year, however the problem there is that inked on numbers were designed to duplicate original Gibsooon numbering and may not indicate a Tokai production year.

Peter Mac
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ochay
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


It's a Greco !!! Made in the Greco factory-
Greco/Ibanez made a Jillion Les Pauls that year-slap a Tokai Veneer/LOGO on the headstock stamp a Serial number on her>>

and Wahlah !!

Tokai !!

NOT !!
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Blues Junior
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should check out this one!

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4516
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