zakk wylde string wrap thingy..

[LoveRocksRule]

k guys i wanna know exactly how Zakk strings his LP customs...

now i know that he feeds the strings thru the tailpiece backwards and wraps it over but i already tried this the last time i restrung my tokai only to notice that where the strings are twisted beside the ball end they started bending really badly and it looked as though it was gonna snap if i tuned it up any further.

so i just strung it up the normal way... but i really want to try this technique as a lot of folk tell me that u get more sustain if u have the tailpiece screwed right down onto the top of the guitar.

but i cant screw my tailpiece all the way down with the strings on the normal way as it has to much of an angle between the bridge and tailpiece and causes my high strings to snap all the time. which is a real pain in the ***..

so a freind suggested the Zakk Wylde technique, which does allow me to have it screwed flush with the top of the guitar,, can somebody tell me if i am doing somthing wrong is there somthing else that i need to do in order to string my guitar up this way...

thanks in advance guys.

From Dave

 

[Paladin2019]

No, you're not doing anything wrong. That's how you're supposed to do it.

Tip - cut the ball ends off your last set of strings and thread them onto your new strings so that they rest on the ball ends of the new strings. THEN do the wrap trick. It keeps the wound sections at the bottom of the string from taking the brunt of the wrap-bend, and they are less likely to break as a result.

I've done the overwrap trick before and noticed no difference in sustain, but some claim it makes a big difference. For me the big thing was how it changed the feel of the bridge under my hand and made the strings a lot more floppy. Each to their own.

 

[LoveRocksRule]

I've done the overwrap trick before and noticed no difference in sustain, but some claim it makes a big difference. For me the big thing was how it changed the feel of the bridge under my hand and made the strings a lot more floppy. Each to their own.

thanks paladin that makes sence actually am i right in saying that i could also go up a gauge as well because there is less tension??

and also if i do decide to go ahead and do this mod with the gauge i use at the moment will i need to tighten the truss a little to compensate for the strings having less tension??

thanks again.

From Dave

 

[Paladin2019]

I do recommend going up a guage if you do this trick, but you'll probably get away without any adjustment as you'd just be bringing string tightness back to what it was originally. You'll proabably get away with it even if you leave the string guage as it is, it's not a huge jump.

Bearing mind that if you do notice an increase in sustain, the bigger strings will probably have a lot to do with it!

 

[brad347]

This is a myth. The increase in sustain from screwing the tailpiece down comes with the increased BREAKING ANGLE of the strings over the bridge, putting more downward pressure on the bridge and hence the top (or body) of the guitar making it more resonant and making it sustain more. Makes the biggest difference on hollow and semi-hollow guitars.

Top-wrapping the strings in effect DECREASES the breaking angle and wouldn't probably change the sound all that much.

Now you know. Good luck!

PS... anything that someone thinks will give them more sustain probably will in their own mind... but if you have no scientific explanation for it then the results are likely mostly psychosomatic.

 

[Paladin2019]

PS... anything that someone thinks will give them more sustain probably will in their own mind... but if you have no scientific explanation for it then the results are likely mostly psychosomatic.

I noticed very little difference when I did it, but there is a theory behind it. Screwing the tailpiece down is supposed to result in improved mechanical coupling between the body and tailpiece, resulting in improved vibration transfer.

That's the whole thing behind tonepros hardware as well.

 

[villager]

as paladin said ...this has been discussed to death on the LP forum ...do a search there on "Top Wrapping"

 

[brad347]

I don't buy the "mechanical coupling" theory, as the stop tailpiece never actually makes full contact with the body... only the screw posts, and the amount of contact is the same regardless of the position of the bridge.

I screw it all the way down to increase the breaking angle over the bridge on my ES-347 and get tons of sustain, but I don't top-wrap. What's wrong with that? Yes, it does make the strings feel heavier (but I play heavy strings anyway).

I'll take a second look at my 347 and see what I find.

 

[Paladin2019]

I don't buy the "mechanical coupling" theory, as the stop tailpiece never actually makes full contact with the body... only the screw posts, and the amount of contact is the same regardless of the position of the bridge.

It's just that there's fewer 'loose' bits in the equation. If the screws aren't tight then in theory you're losing energy as they transfer vibration to the body - and remember, they are the tailpiece's only contact with the body so what affects them affects the vibration properties.

Screw them tight and you eliminate that.

Oh, by the way - the top wrap is also used to deliberately reduce the breaking angle at the bridge because screwing down and using heavy strings will put a huge amount of pressure on the bridge and cause it to cave in at the middle. You might want to check that when you look at yours again.

 

[brad347]

You're right about the extreme downward pressure. For me, sound is most important so I've had my luthier recommend a bridge that will stand up to it.

I have caved in several bridges. I use my guitar everyday for several hours (I'm a full time freelancer) so I'm pretty aware of what goes on with it. I guarantee that a caving in bridge wouldn't escape my notice.

I can't bear to do the top-wrapping thing as it results in a loss in sustain and sound.

Bear in mind that I also use string gauges between .011 and .013, but I've seen those crappy Gibson bridges cave in under the pressure of a screwed down tailpiece and .010s. To me, this represents a design flaw, as a bridge should be strong enough to handle this kind of normal tension even with heavy strings. The cheap ALLPARTS bridge is actually much more durable. I bent one of those too with the heavy strings, so my luthier dug up an older Gibson one from the late 60s and it's been fine for a while now.

It is this extreme downward pressure that results in the sound. It's this localized pressure that transfers more vibration and sets the wood in motion more. It's the same reason that upright bassists are always trying to achieve the ideal balance between playability and tone with their action. Higher action on double bass = sharper breaking angle over the bridge, more downward pressure, more tone. Lower action = easier playability. That's one reason why beginning upright bassists often have a thin tone.

 

[LoveRocksRule]

this thread has been busy since i last checked....

i tried to screw the tailpiece all the way down on my love rock strung the normal way, but when i tune up the high strings are actually resting on the back of the bridge as opposed to the saddle and the angle of the strings between the tailpiece and bridge is insane.....

 

[brad347]

this thread has been busy since i last checked....

i tried to screw the tailpiece all the way down on my love rock strung the normal way, but when i tune up the high strings are actually resting on the back of the bridge as opposed to the saddle and the angle of the strings between the tailpiece and bridge is insane.....

This can happen. I don't know that it has any adverse effects.... it doesn't on my 347. Any thoughts/experiences?

 

[Paladin2019]

This can happen. I don't know that it has any adverse effects.... it doesn't on my 347. Any thoughts/experiences?

Several reliable sources have told me that this is a bad thing for the sound. Something to do with dampening second order harmonics.

Dan Erlewine suggests in one of his books that if you really want to screw down this way, you should file grooves in your bridge so that the strings don't touch it. My regular tech just sets the talipiece as low as it can go without touching the back of the bridge.

 

[brad347]

Interesting! Thanks for the tip.

I'm going to have to re-think my setup now.

Filing grooves in the bridge... this is certainly food for thought.

I certainly don't feel like I've been missing second order harmonics...

maybe I am and just like the sound... come to think of it my 347 does have a LOT of fundamental and I like it. That's one of the things I like about it. Maybe I won't mess with it...

food for thought for sure.

 

[LoveRocksRule]

Paladin do u think it makes that big of a difference to your tone having the tailpiece screwed right down or not????

is it really worth my while screwing it down coz my guitar sounds and feels really great as it is at the moment, theres not gonna be a huge difference really is there???