Tokai Springy Sound ST-50

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adjieformaggi

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Hello All,

This is my first post on TR. Am a big fan of JV guitars - I own a couple of late 70s / early 80s Ibanez Artists (an AR-100 and an AM-50) and recently bought a Tokai Springy Sound ST-50 from Japan off ebay...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300381707019&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Questions for the forum...

1. What are the main differences between the ST50 and the ST80? Should I have bought the latter?

2. Hopefully this isn't too sacriligious but am planning to replace: (a) the pickups with a set of Tonerider Pure Vintage and to upgrade the electronics - pots, caps, etc., (b) the nut with a Tusq nut and (c) the bridge with a Callaham Vintage Bridge Assembly. Any thoughts? Don't care about resale value as I plan to hold on to it but am concerned about tone / playability.

Thanks in advance for taking the time to consider / respond. Look fwd to being able to make valuable contributions to forum discussions in the future.

Best,

Adj
 
Welcome!!

ST80 two-piece (normally ash) body Vs usually 3-piece alder body on the ST50

ST80 V neck provile (again usually) Vs C profile on the ST50

Better pickups on the ST80, although I and a few others prefer the 'U' pickups on the ST50's

So as a player, not a lot to choose between then, they are both great guitars!!

Pots are high quality, you won't really see (hear) any benefit from changing them, but if you do choose Alpha pots as CTS will be too big.

Try the pickups first you might just like them IMO certainly as good as the toneriders!

I changed the bridge on my Springy to a steel block and didn't find any difference, personally I would save the money for better pickups, something like SD SSL-1's for my tastes but that all depends on what you are looking for.

Finally - try the search facility there's loads of good info on the forum :D
 
Should you have bought an ST80 instead? Who knows? How long is a ball of string? The specs are certainly better, but?

Tokai measurements have been a subject of some discussion recently, as you can see for yourself over here. You don't say when your guitar is from, which might (or might not) affect the answer, but in my understanding Tokai ST measurements aren't identical to Fender measurements, and you might want to give some more consideration to the idea of adding a Callaham bridge. If you go ahead, let me know how you get on. I chickened out, but would be happy for you to act as a guinea pig. :D

Recently upgraded the electronics on my Springy (with CTS pots ??after some fairly minor work with a chainsaw file ? and a Jensen PIO cap) and don't regret it. The old ones were shot, but the bad news is that it didn't make a huge difference to the sound. Different story on my Love Rock?

Suggest you do a search on 'electronics', 'caps', 'nuts' and so on.
 
BlueThird said:
You don't say when your guitar is from, which might (or might not) affect the answer, but in my understanding Tokai ST measurements aren't identical to Fender measurements, and you might want to give some more consideration to the idea of adding a Callaham bridge. If you go ahead, let me know how you get on. I chickened out, but would be happy for you to act as a guinea pig. :D
.
Click to expand...

I put a Callaham bridge / trem into my 80's E Series MIJ Fender strat and it fit perfectly - all of the holes lined up too.
 
Thanks ??that's good to know, Marcus.

I've been thinking of how to get hold of my dream Strat a fair bit recently ??the best wood I can afford, Callaham components, Kinman pickups ??and with the wood the options were between Warmoth or similar body and neck or something cheap enough to take apart and rebuild. An MiJ Fender might just fit the bill. Have long suspected that they're built to Fender US specs rather than eighties Tokai, but haven't previously found any confirmation.

With regard to the thread I mentioned above, where we seem to have some evidence that Tokai have changed their measurements at some point, I'm wondering if their relationship with Fender might have had something to do with that. It might be just what they needed to standardise on the more common dimensions.
 
Thank you all very much for the responses!

Marcus - any perceptible improvement in tone after dropping in the Callaham. If the reviews on Harmony Central are anything to go by, this modification yields more dramatic improvements than upgrading pickups. Has this been you experience or was it a good old fashioned case of the emperor's new clothes?

BlueThird - I recently attempted to construct my dream strat / parts-o-caster using Warmoth parts. Didn't work out. First mistake I made was choosing to go hardtail cos I tend not to use a trem- I hadn't considered that so much of the classic Strat tone comes from the tremolo block!!! Second, and I think most critical, mistake I made was expecting brand new wood to sound like nicely aged wood. Until my attempt I hadn't appreciated how important the ageing process is to tone and playability. So, IMO the best starting point would be something with a few years on it!!!
 
adjieformaggi said:
Thank you all very much for the responses!

Marcus - any perceptible improvement in tone after dropping in the Callaham. If the reviews on Harmony Central are anything to go by, this modification yields more dramatic improvements than upgrading pickups. Has this been you experience or was it a good old fashioned case of the emperor's new clothes?
Click to expand...

Made a big difference on mine because mine had the cheap, thin (half thickness) zinc trem block on it. Much better sustain and string tone.
 
Guys,

FYI, have had a definitive answer to the Callaham bridge question from the man himself, Bill Callaham, who responded as follows...

"Dear Adriano,

It is not. The Tokai were made on a 2 1/8 spacing not the vintage 2 7/32. You can change the bridge but you will need to dowel the existing holes and redrill. If you do this I would suggest our V/N bridge so that the strings will stay on the fretboard properly.

Hope this helps,

Bill Callaham"
 
adjieformaggi said:
2. Hopefully this isn't too sacriligious but am planning to replace: (a) the pickups with a set of Tonerider Pure Vintage and to upgrade the electronics - pots, caps, etc., (b) the nut with a Tusq nut and (c) the bridge with a Callaham Vintage Bridge Assembly. Any thoughts? Don't care about resale value as I plan to hold on to it but am concerned about tone / playability.
Click to expand...

It's not sacrilegious to replace parts that don't need replacing, juts a waste of time & money! Personally I'm in favour of upgrading the pickups as I think they're the weakest parts of most MIJ guitars (though many would disagree). But what's wrong with the nut? What's wrong with the pots? I replace pots if (and only if) they wear out. As for the switch, it's already the finest Strat switch available anywhere! It seems a shame to mess around with an old guitar which is already fine as it is. Did you want a vintage guitar or not?

Whether the Toneriders will be an improvement I can't say, I haven't tried them. I would avoid bright sounding pickups though - sen is already a brighter sounding body wood than alder.

As for the Callaghan bridge, I remain to be convinced it's a worthwhile improvement as there is nothing wrong with the Tokai bridge! Again, others will probably disagree with me on this point.

Surely you need to get to know the guitar first before you can make an informed decision about which parts need replacing?

Mike
 
Well actually, replacing the pickups in my ST80 is one of today's little jobs. :wink: I found the Es too thin & brittle, & I fitted a set of Texas Specials. They sounded great in the sen Springy, even though they sounded muddy & dull in an alder bodied Fender. I used it for a couple of gigs & I was very happy.

Then I bought a set of Yutas (which sound great in a Bacchus) & fitted them, & they don't work for me. So the Yutas are going into my new Goldstar ST55, & the Texas Specials are going back in the ST80, but with a Seymour Duncan Twangbanger at the bridge - so I can get a fatter, more Tele like sound.

But loads of people hate Texas Specials, & everyone will have their own favourites. What do have in it now? Us? How much do you like them/dislike them?

One more thing - if you change various bits, may I suggest that you do them one by one, so you can assess how much difference each change makes? Some people change everything in one go, but how can they tell which changes were worthwhile and which were not?

Keep us posted, whatever you do. Maybe I'm wrong about the Callaghan bridge?
 
Depending on the sound you're after,i can recommend Don Mare pups.
They're excellent,i pic up a set of swing aces a few weeks ago on ebay
and they sound great in my ST80.
Swing Aces
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmEwwPK9zWY
Super Sports
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foQ4FFSupoA

Volker
 

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