ST80 ID

[lpd]

Ok I picked up a parts guitar. It has a 76 Fender neck which appears to be mounted on an ST80 body with Fender Custom pups and a reissue Fender bridge. Here is a pick of the body. As you can see someone routed the pickup cavities for bigger pups but you can see the Tokai round screw holes still in the neck pickup cavity. Also it has ST80 stamped on the neck and worm hole route looks identical to me. Thoughts??

 

[Len]

nice parts guitar!

looks very much like a ST-80 body to me.
you can do the nitro test if you wanna be sure.


it definately is a 1978-1980 Tokai body ,
what?s the distance of the neck mounting holes / screws ? (the early Springy Sounds used 2 different neckplates)
neckplate should still be original, if there?s a serial number it will tell you the year.

There are also red ST-80 etc. neck pocket stamps. I?ve seen them on 79 and 80 models. I think the black stamps have been used earlier .. but can?t prove.

I suppose any colour / production codes are gone due to the additional routing

 

[lpd]

Hey thanks for the info. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by distance on the screws means? Is that between them sideways or up and down? The guitar is at a techs getting set up. The serial number on the plate is 3472 although it appears someone scribed a 800 in front of it potentially trying to replicate a Fender serial of the 80s. Too bad it was routed out because it removed any other identifiers. Only thing I have found is ST80 in the neck although the rings around the screw holes resemmble a Tokai as well.

What's a nitro test? Looks like the grain is pretty tight on this. On the Fender forum a fella though it might be pine but my tech is sure it's an ash.

Again thanks. Peter

 

[Len]

hey Peter,
for what I know the body is made of Sen wood. Its grain patterns often look similar to ash. should be a 2 piece body

only ST-80 and up models had a nitro laquer finish.
models ST-42 to ST-60 were poly finished.
a drop of acetone will react with the nitro finish but will not react with a poly finish. so that?s another way of identifying a ST-80 or higher end model.
search for "nitro test" ...

it would be interesting to see a pic of the neckplate when you get it back from your tech.
just measure the distance between the holecenter of the mounting screws vertically and horizontally.
On a standard Fender these are 1,5" and 2" apart. Tokai used a smaller spacing for their earlier models. For me it looks like it is one of those ...

If 8003472 is the original serial number then your strat body is form 1978

 

[lpd]

Here is a pick of my neck plate as you can see the first three digits don't look legit and were probably scribed by the previous owner to replicate a strat # I think it's a Tokai but not 100%. The routing on the bridge pickup looks identical sans the extra routing that was added. It doesn't have a worm hole like a strat does.

 

[Len]

to me the neck plate looks like the other 78 serial plates I?ve seen.... I don?t see anything unlegit about it.

countersunk screwholes
recess for the pickup mounting screws
smaller neckplate measurements
flat routing where Fenders have the worm route (as you said this must be original because it still has the original finish in that place)

I don?t know any other manufacturer who routed their strats that way.

Don?t worry - you?ve got a great guitar
the body is a tokai 100%

 

[lpd]

Thanks Len it plays amazing. I couldn't be any happier.

 

[marcusnieman]

I've never seen a first year issue 78 Springy with a wide neck plate and a serial number stamped on it.....they've all been the narrow plates with the serial number on the neck butt underside. Not denying that's an ST80 because it sure looks like it.... just not sure about dating it from the neckplate

 

[Len]

7-digit number starting with 80 = 1978

I?ve seen several of them.

Cliff?s ST-100 for instance
http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=20475&start=0

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=20854

Also 80xxxxx serials are often confused with 1980 serial numbers.
but 7-digit number starting with 00 = 1980

Must be like this:
earlier in 1978 = ink stamped serial on neck heel and/or neck pocket, no serial on neckplate
later in 1978 = neckplate with slightly larger dimensions and impressed serial number

I think they also restarted the serial numbers (from 8000001?) when they switched to the number plates.
The inked one you show is # 8000750, so that?s a higher number than
the impressed one Cliff owns which is # 8000276

At least that?s what makes sense to me

 

[jonah65]

according to the registry, 7 digit ser.no.s were for silverstar's, 3 hole neck plate surely?
ser. no. 3472 would be a ligit 1954 fender, according to their database.
if it is a 1978 fender neck, you should still be able to see where the original
screws (3) went into it.
if not it, it must be either a pre cbs neck, or post cbs neck.
has it got the bullet truss rod?
interesting.

 

[lpd]

I don't think the neck plate is legit. The first three digits weren't stamped but scribed and horribly done at that. The last four digits 3472 are stamped. The neck pocket has an ST80 which made me believe it was a Tokai the neck is a Fender 76 neck based on the stamp on the end of the neck. It was a micr tilt three screw converted to a four screw.

Looks like someone took the sum of a bunch of parts to build a guitar.

 

[lpd]

according to the registry, 7 digit ser.no.s were for silverstar's, 3 hole neck plate surely?
ser. no. 3472 would be a ligit 1954 fender, according to their database.
if it is a 1978 fender neck, you should still be able to see where the original
screws (3) went into it.
if not it, it must be either a pre cbs neck, or post cbs neck.
has it got the bullet truss rod?
interesting.

It's a 76 fender neck

 

[Len]

according to the registry, 7 digit ser.no.s were for silverstar's, 3 hole neck plate surely?

It?s a bit misleading.
your are referring to information from the 1982 catalog,
http://www.tokairegistry.com/tokai-info/tokai-fender.html


Until 1982 Springy / Breezysounds / Silverstars all have a 7digit serial number. year = first digit.

Then the serial number system was changed in 1982 or late 1981

springy / breezysounds from 82 and later have the 4, 5 , 6 - digit or L serial numbers. They were meant to replicate Fender serials. No real information about year with these serials.

post- 82 Silverstars still have the 7digit number on the headstock. Their serial number system was not changed.

 

[Len]

I don't think the neck plate is legit. The first three digits weren't stamped but scribed and horribly done at that. The last four digits 3472 are stamped. The neck pocket has an ST80 which made me believe it was a Tokai the neck is a Fender 76 neck based on the stamp on the end of the neck. It was a micr tilt three screw converted to a four screw.

Looks like someone took the sum of a bunch of parts to build a guitar.

Can you upload a better picture of the neck plate ? (no camera flash, daylight)

Please measure:
Is the distance of the neck mounting screws / neckplate holes 1 7/8" // ~47,6mm on the one side
and 1 3/8" // ~ 35mm on the other side ?
(measure holecenter - holecenter)
The measurements should be the same for the neck pocket holes of course.
Thanks!

I just can?t imagine that plate is not legit. Try to find a neckplate with that strange (!!) spacing and a not vertically centered 4-digits serial. That?s near impossible
I?ve got a 1980 with that spacing and a 1981 with a standard Fender neckplate spacing ( 2" / 1,5"), so I know that they changed the neckplate spacing at some point of time inbetween.

It doesn?t mean the neck plate MUST belong to that exact body. But I?m thinking the other way around. The neck pocket holes are not redrilled and a 1978-1980 Springy Sound body does not fit with any neckplate!

Please take the measurements and we?ll know more

 

[lpd]

Ok when I get it back from the ol tech I can. It's getting the neck set up as I am not too good with that. I'm sure it's a Tokai the era well that's a whole different story. I will keep you posted.

 

[jonah65]

the number on the plate looks central, if the 800 was added, the original
3472 would have been 'off centre' to the right.
i would say st80 body and plate, and '76 fender neck.
unless the neck was broken, why would someone change the excellent
tokai neck?

 

[lpd]

I think you are right. Seems crazy to swap necks unless he wanted to replicate a strat. Looks like the neck was planed down a little and regretted too plays very good before a setup so I thinks she's a keeper.