Orville by Gibson Serial numbers

[villager]

I have had both the numbered and lettered type..in 93 and 94, the fret bound ones ..the 57 classics(paf stickered)were used from mid 92 -late 94 when ObG stopped...the fret bound ones are no different in overall quality..they just have fret binding and blank truss cover ..this was only on 93 and 94 models to my knowledge..

I started calling them re-issues to distinguish them from the non fret bound ones...then my mate yasushi at guitar shelter started using this to differentiate between fret bound and non fret bound ObG's... now it seems to have become common usage. ..

ALL OBG's are reissues of a 59 les paul ...some of them in 93 and 94 had fret binding..earlier ones did not ...

 

[orvilleowner]

My 1993 Orville by Gibson Les Paul Custom (wine red, G306227) has an ebony fingerboard and fret binding. That makes it a "reissue model"? What official model number would that be? I'm especially curious as to its original retail price (in Yen) -- the price was usually in the model number, right?

 

[bruno]

Once again thank you villager for shinning in this post, with useful info...

byt the way check the pm if possible

 

[20 century boy]

I believe the G stands for Gakki - one of the factories.

I suppose that you refer to fujigen gakki. But "gakki" means "musical instrument", the name of the factory is "fujigen" actually. The factories for Orville were fujigen, Terada and IIDA.
The "G" might be for "gibson", but after they produced some models in Korea, they used a "J" for japan on opposite to the Korean models. Well, it's just a guess, what do you think?

 

[villager]

i think we shouldnt try to figure out the beautifull vagaries of the japanese mind....

 

[20 century boy]

ObG serial numbers in 1988 and 1989 looked like these: G887138, G887399, G894479, G894879, G895319, G897923, G899544. I'm not sure if the third number is the month (GYYMNNN ?). Maybe it's GYYNNNN, the NNNN-th guitar of the year?

Sometime in 1989, they went to the YMMNNN six-digit pattern: Y was the year (0=1990, 1=1991, ... 8=1998) and MM was the month (01=Jan, 02=Feb, ... 12=Dec) and NNN is the production number for that month (NNN=001 to ?). Examples: G908478, G007456, G012248, G012503, G107604, G112075, G302012, G306227, 604073, J607006, 701216, J701032, J706034, 802364, 805167, 806045, and J806048.

Some odd numbers: G3-5079, 4 7110, G2-6010. Those numbers look cool, like the late 1950's Gibson numberings! My guess is that the "gap" or the "dash" in the serial number is actually a "missing 0," so that maybe these are May '93 #79, July '94 #110, and June '92 #10.

These are all ObG (or O) serial numbers that I have seen -- in person or in digital images.

According to Gibson japan, your guess was good on the methods for serial numbers: YMMNNN, the second and third numbers are for the month. 8) changes are due to change of factory, apparently.

there's no mention of the "88-89" system. :-?

 

[orvilleowner]

Here are some of the numbers I've seen.

"Orville by Gibson" guitars:
1988: G887012, G887138, G887399, G887500, G889057
1989: G893090, G894479, G894879, G895319, G897017, G897162, G897841, G897923, G899441, J899511, G899544.
1989: G903415, G904271, 907019, G908478, G909947
1990: G007101, G007300, G007456, G008119, G008296, G009685, G010820, G011213, G012248, G012503, G012515
1991: G104576, G104578, G107030, G107604, G108722, G109600, G112075, G112094, G112540
1992: G206136, G208032, 209044, G212245
1993: G302012, G306227, G306270
1994: 410311
1995: 501051

"Orville" guitars:
1989: 907031
1990: G004154
1993: 302168, 305647
1994: 401110, 405256, 406317, 406530, 411037, 412246
1995: 502130, 502372, 503046, 506052, 506628, 507091, 507329, 510138, 511394, J512071
1996: 601273, 601314, 604073, 604135, 606562, J607006, 608305, J610035, 610251, 610545, 611306, 611334, 612290
1997: 701216, J701032, 702003, 703046, 703096, 703394, 704075, 704076, 705106, 705248, J706034, 709038, 709290, J710085, 710109, 710179, 710455, J711038
1998: J802010, 802364, 803290, 804021, 805011, 805167, 805189, 806045, J806048, 806057, 806399

I didn't include any "reissue" numbers here, obviously, just the letter-six digit types.

 

[orvilleowner]

Here are the ObG "Reissue Numbers" I have collected:

G2-6010
3 2320, G3-5079
4 1228, 4 1267, 4 7110, G4-6154, G4-6554
5 2064.

As you see, some have "G" some have dashes.

 

[fretburner]

are the serial #s supposed to be engraved on the wood or just printed?

thanks!

 

[orvilleowner]

All the one's I've seen are inked on (not stamped into the wood).

 

[fretburner]

thanks!

 

[Franatic25]

My obg's serial # is 3 1246. A 93 model. Strange thing is, I had the holes for the pots bored out so i could upgrade the hardware to a RS guitarworks kit. Looking at the fresh wood, the top appears to be mahogany. It is the standard "black beauty" model, gold hardware, fret binding, long neck tenon, 57 classics, the works. And I have yet to see another one like it (the mahogany top). Any of u have any ideas?

 

[orvilleowner]

They did make all-mahogany bodied Les Paul Customs.

The 1997 Orville LPC-85 is an example. The catalog description translates to "On the strong demand from the musicians, this 1957 re-issue model was reproduced with cream binding, all mahogany."

 

[japanstrat]

Here are some K serial numbers I've found.
These are found on the back of the Orville headstock as a sticker.

K 095754 SG
K 029208 SG
K 095511 SG
K 028039 Les Paul
K 038978 Les Paul

They don't follow the usual Orville format they just seem to be a K followed by a production number.

The K in these serials has nothing to do with the G, J or A that are sometimes in the usual Orville serial numbers.

The first 0 might stand for a year with the rest of the number being a production number (which is what Ibanez Japan was using between 1987 - 1996 for their headstock stickers) in which case the first 0 would have to represent 1990 which is about when the first Orvilles (not the Orvilles by Gibson) were made.

Some people have theories about the K standing for Korea but no Korean manufacturer uses K.
The first letter is a factory marker for Asian guitar makers.
Cort uses C Samick uses S Unsung uses U Peerless uses P etc.
The only Asian manufacturer that uses a K is the recent KWO factory in Indonesia.

Some people think the K Orvilles are from 1996.
I don't see how they work that out because it's not in the serials above.

I do know that Kasuga in Japan have used a K and so have Terada Japan and both of them have made models for well known brands.

 

[20 century boy]

Some people have theories about the K standing for Korea but no Korean manufacturer uses K.
The first letter is a factory marker for Asian guitar makers.
Cort uses C Samick uses S Unsung uses U Peerless uses P etc.
The only Asian manufacturer that uses a K is the recent KWO factory in Indonesia.

Well, if the serial number is on a sticker, it's obviously because it's put after the guitar is manufactured,so it's not a letter put by the factory but by the company. It has a link with the G, A, and J letter of the serials used by japan factories., I suspect ( just my personal theory) that the factory that use the G letter is one factory and the J and A letters is another factory as the guitars are little different, especially the accoustics.
The K for Korean is mostly contested by people who wants to sell their stock, show me a "Orville By Gibson" model with a K number and we'll see.

 

[japanstrat]

Ibanez who mostly had fujigen make their guitars in Japan have used a sticker with the fujigen factory code and fujigen was making orvilles around the same time 1988 - 1998 as the Ibanez sticker models 1987 - 1996 so the Orville sticker could be fujigens but the factory code for fujigen is F and not K.


from www.ibanezrules.com/catalogs/reference/dating.htm

HEADSTOCK SERIAL STICKERS

1987 - 1996 - Guitars built in Japan between these years will have a serial number beginning with F followed by 6 numbers. F is the production factory which stands for Fujigen. The first digit will be the last digit of the year, ie. F8***** is a guitars made in Fujigen in 1988. The last 5 numbers will be the consecutive number denoting production count for the year. 25899 would be the 25899th guitar built that year.

 

[20 century boy]

I have no prooves but a bit of common sense and here's my thoughts:

First, there's 2 kinds of serials: the serials with just a number ( factory X) and the serial with the G (probably for Gibson by a factory that produce many similar models, factory Y), so we could reasonably thought that there's 2 factories.

During a chat with some Guys from Gibson japan, I've been told there was 3 factories but maybe there was only 2. When it turned to "?piphone japan", Fujigen was not much involved anymore from what I heard, It was mostly IIDA and Terada. Fujigen had only a few models in charge.

Then, Orvilleowner showed us that the J serial appeared around 1995, it's also at that time ( end of 95) that the K appeared. Makes me think of a J for Japan and a K for Korea. It's only in this case that the J letter makes sens. The A being for the accoustic models, but only in the factory that produce the J serial, the accoustics from the other factory have the G letter like the electric models. The G numbers continue during that time, because there is still 2 factories in the japanese production.

TWe'll never get prooves as there is no written story, but it's common knowledge even amongst japanese collectors.

 

[japanstrat]

Here is my theory.

The J prefix appears on a "Orville by Gibson" in 1989 according to orvilleowners list so I don't think it stands for Japan.
I think the G, J and A are feature codes.
Sometimes they are included in the serial number and somtimes not.

The K serial number is not the same format as the G or J serials so a direct K to J comparison can't be done.
If J did stand for Japan K would not have to stand for Korea unless both the J and K serial numbers were in the same format which they aren't.
Also no Asian manufacturer I know of uses a country code for the first letter it is always a factory code and the K serial numbers seem to be in an Asian format similar to the Ibanez serial numbers.

I think the K srial numbers are in a K XXXXXX format where the XXXXXX is some sort of production number with no year or date info.

In 1995 the "Orville by Gibson" line gets fazed out but Orville keeps on going until 1998 when Gibson cancels the Orville license and Gibson starts Epiphone Japan.
What would happen if there were leftover Orville stock that couldn't be given a year and date due to Gibson canceling the Orville license.
Maybe these leftover Orvilles were given a generic serial (the K serial) with no year or date info and released from the factory after 1998.

Also the Japanese import laws that cover electric guitars probably require a country of origin label so the country of origin label would have to be on the imported Orvilles to Japan.

 

[20 century boy]

Here is my theory.

The J prefix appears on a "Orville by Gibson" in 1989 according to orvilleowners list so I don't think it stands for Japan.
I think the G, J and A are feature codes.
Sometimes they are included in the serial number and somtimes not.

The K serial number is not the same format as the G or J serials so a direct K to J comparison can't be done.
If J did stand for Japan K would not have to stand for Korea unless both the J and K serial numbers were in the same format which they aren't.
Also no Asian manufacturer I know of uses a country code for the first letter it is always a factory code and the K serial numbers seem to be in an Asian format similar to the Ibanez serial numbers.

I think the K srial numbers are in a K XXXXXX format where the XXXXXX is some sort of production number with no year or date info.

In 1995 the "Orville by Gibson" line gets fazed out but Orville keeps on going until 1998 when Gibson cancels the Orville license and Gibson starts Epiphone Japan.
What would happen if there were leftover Orville stock that couldn't be given a year and date due to Gibson canceling the Orville license.
Maybe these leftover Orvilles were given a generic serial (the K serial) with no year or date info and released from the factory after 1998.

Also the Japanese import laws that cover electric guitars probably require a country of origin label so the country of origin label would have to be on the imported Orvilles to Japan.

Most J serial Orville I saw were from after 94 (mostly 95,96,97,98 ) but it's possible some were made before, in that case, I must admit that my theory is wrong.

If it's leftovers it would explain why the K serial Orville are lower quality than the others.

Even In the early days, many japanese brands like Hondo, crafted their guitars in Korea and most of the time, the factory is impossible to trace.

 

[japanstrat]

The quality of the K serial number Orvilles seems to be about the same quality as the usual serial number Orvilles from 1995 onwards.
I think the quality of the early Orvilles is better than the quality of the later Orvilles.

Some weird things were happening at Orville/Epiphone Japan in 1997/1998.
I found an Epiphone using an Orville J 1998 serial number at

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GIBSON-ORVILLE-EPIPHONE-ES-335-ES335-JAPAN-RARE_W0QQitemZ160002039171QQihZ006QQcategoryZ33040QQcmdZViewItem

At http://guitarmellow.main.jp
there are quite a few K serial (stickers have come off) Orvilles and looking at them and the usual serial number Orvilles there is not much difference.
The K serial Orvilles he's got use "Made in Japan" tuners (and probably the pickups bridges etc) and so do the usual serial number Orvilles.

The K serial number Orvilles seem to be Les Paul and SG models only.
The J usual serial number Orvilles seem to be for Flying V's and other models rather than for the Les Paul and SG models.

I've seen some Japanese Epiphone Elites using a serial number sticker as well.

http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/ELLPS-VS.htm