Mystery Custom LC

[AlbertaLoveRock]

Hello all, I seem to have a knack for finding oddball Tokais out in the wild, and this latest one is no exception. I've been looking for a wine red custom for awhile, and found this one on a Japanese store listing. I think you'll agree that is absolutely a Tokai build, but there are some head scratching details. Serial number does not match the usual convention, and is noted on the back of the headstock as well as the neck pickup cavity. The neck has had some sort of repair, and seems to have been repaired quite well. The headstock has obviously been refinished and seems to have had a double diamond decal affixed and then lacquered over. No matter how hard I squint there does not seem to be any remnants of a brand on the top of the headstock. Looks like a one piece mahogany neck ( with some lacquer type of clouding at the base of the neck ), and possibly a one piece body, although I've been fooled before on that. I cant find any seems on the body anywhere. Fretboard looks like fairly tight grained rosewood with pearloid inlays ? Somewhere along the line the pickups were replaced with older Seymour Duncan pickups, APH1B in the neck, and a JBJ at the bridge. 2 CTS pots plus what look like possibly original pots in the pickup cavity ( Tokai routing there as well ). And the pot knobs have "golden" numbers rather than white, which may indicate something ?

So what do you think I have here ? Someone's idea of a Custom Shop/Modified LC60/100 ? I put it in the older than 1985 only because its seems to be a well played guitar, but it could be newer than that. It plays beautifully by the way - even unplugged it seems to generate its own harmonics. Very happy with the guitar - but curious what the history is if anyone has ever seen one like this....

 

[Sigmania]

Odd. It is definitely a Tokai though in my opinion.

Things I am noticing:
-Fret edge binding
-Ebony fretboard (which means LC/TLC100)
-Square type pickup tab routs
-Offset tenon
-One piece inner rectangle in diamond

Questions:

1. Was the headstock broken and repaired and face veneer replaced? This is a common break on LCs. I am wondering it the headstock veneer was replaced and the serial number sanded down and re-done?
2. The number in the cavity seems like something a luthier wrote down before starting to work on the neck to remember it to re-do it later after the repair, but I think they left off a digit.

 

[Sigmania]

Here are some others for reference.

Vintage LC Custom Gallery

 

[Tsjackson]

Odd. It is definitely a Tokai though in my opinion.

Things I am noticing:
-Fret edge binding
-Ebony fretboard (which means LC/TLC100)
-Square type pickup tab routs
-Offset tenon
-One piece inner rectangle in diamond

Questions:

1. Was the headstock broken and repaired and face veneer replaced? This is a common break on LCs. I am wondering it the headstock veneer was replaced and the serial number sanded down and re-done?
2. The number in the cavity seems like something a luthier wrote down before starting to work on the neck to remember it to re-do it later after the repair, but I think they left off a digit.

I was going to say if I had to repair a guitar in the days before camera phones, and there was a chance the serial number would be damaged I’d write it inside the guitar somewhere too.

 

[AlbertaLoveRock]

Not much information available from the seller - but it certainly looks like the face veneer was replaced at the time of the repair. The double diamond does have proud edge above the finish, but it seems to be covered in lacquer or whatever they used to refinish the front of the headstock. Yes, it could be that the luthier made a note of the original serial but left off the first digit possibly ? Maybe it was really faint and he/she didn't notice it. Could be a TLC100 from the mid eighties I suppose, then the owner had it repaired and the Seymour Duncans put in in mid 90's maybe ? The CTS pots are dated as 1995 so at least we know its older than that - and since there were not many customs built after 1990 with FEB, it really would seem it's from the 80's - does that make sense ?

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

The strange 6-digit serial could point to a Tokai-built OEM job. This afternoon I tried to check some known labels (Grandy, Bradley, Sigma) for their serial format and couldn't find a match so far, but that's maybe a scent to follow. To me the headstock serial and the pencil note in the PU cavity seem to match perfectly (031328)? Did I miss something?

 

[Sigmania]

I have seen a luthier add a serial number after a repair and screw up.

Old Love Rock

 

[Emiel]

That's not an ebony board, but rosewood rather. Two piece back, I'd guess that makes it more like a TLC60.

 

[AlbertaLoveRock]

Yes, I thought it was a fairly dark rosewood as well. 2 piece back is fine but now we should call it a 60. Or at least the specs of a 60 built for someone else maybe. My Grandy SG still has the 50 sticker on there so that was easier to sort out haha.

In any case it plays really well, has great tone, and it looks good from 20 feet so probably a keeper....

 

[Sigmania]

Sorry, I was up at 5 am. Think I was tired.

And I'm more focused on what year it may have been made than the model.

The FEB is not helpful with a diagnosis because I have seen it on at least one mid 80s LC60 from my memory.

You might take some pictures of the serial number with a flash at different angles then use your computer to adjust the shadows and highlights. It might reveal another digit. Worth a shot.

With that number, assuming it is correct minus a digit, at 31,000 units we are looking at 1985 as far as Love Rock numbers goes. I need to check and see if the LC numbers are in line with LS models.

And the 90s ones re-set and are a lower count.

I had a 1985 LS80 that was SN 5031715.

 

[Sigmania]

I found a 1984 LC with a low number, so they must have done something with the count. They were similar to LS guitars in 1981 then something changed apparently.

Back to the drawing board.

SN 4016401

Vintage LC Custom Gallery

 

[Sigmania]

Here are some 90s examples in case you are curious.

1990s Split Diamond LC Gallery

 

[Sigmania]

Sure seems like it could be missing a 5 at the begining of the serial number. I would look closely with a light at an angle.

SN 5031328 ?

That would fit this pattern nicely.

1985 Split Diamond LC Models Made By Tokai

Snow White 1985 Piare LC-60? (55 or 60, LC or PLC?)

 

[AlbertaLoveRock]

Yes I agree that is entirely possible - even likely

 

[ayrguitarist]

This is an interesting LC.

Is it possible the original headstock was completely destroyed, and a new one was grafted onto the neck? Or was this repaired? Can you see the grain lines, and do they track or follow the neck? There's a lot going on in that pic of the back of the headstock, with 3 different shades and perfect straight lines.

I think its very possible the serial number was starting with a 5 based on other LC's we've seen in 1985.

Did Grandy, or Mavis or Piare ever have mahogany bodies? I would guess it was orginally a Tokai because of thr hog body.

The golden knob indicators could be aftermarket. For example, YJB makes knobs thay they tint the resin to make it look older. Are the numbers embossed into the knob (looking from the bottom) or are they smooth?

I have a 1984 LC-60 and it used the circuit board in the cavity. I haven't removed it to see if the routes look the same below, but those pots on the circuit board don't have the normal pot codes on the back of the pot), but they are different pots than yours.

Tokai was making LCs with fret edge binding up to at least 1998. I have a 98 LC-65 with feb. And there was a LC-70 model then which was all hog, and only came in wine red.

Did the guitar have a refret? The fret edge binding looks like its missing in the middle of the neck, but looks intact by the body.

Rosewood board, acrylic inlays, and multi-piece body should indicate a 60 model.

Your bridgr and tailpiece may help to guage the age as well. Is there any markings on the bottom of them?

 

[AlbertaLoveRock]

Not sure why but I didn't take photos of the bridge and tailpiece for this one - I usually do when disassembling a guitar. Refret is likely but I don't have any information other than what you observed. Quite sure the circuit board was removed and the CTS pots were installed at the same time as the Seymour Duncans were installed. They appear to be the vintage variety so that was likely in the early 90's maybe ?

I'm thinking its the original head stock based on the way the grain matches up in this photo. but definitely refinished and whatever name was on there originally has been lost to the ages.

I'll have to check the bridge and tailpiece next string change - might be something there to add to the story