My new ST-100

[Sigmania]

So I don't know about the first digit, but the second one obviously days not refer to days of the month.

I have to think this is some sort of system for matching bodies to necks relative to setting up the CNC machines or whatever. So the measurements are synced? That's my guess.

 

[Sigmania]

2. Also, do your rosewood guitars have an “R” in the body cavity next to the colour? For example mine says “GS” but based on catalogues it is a “GSR”. Should the body cavity say GSR?

Nope. None that I have seen are marked like that, just the color.

I started thinking that there are probably not any GSR Tokais, so I looked. There was a 1964 TE50 GSR in the Spring 1982 catalog. I don't know if the idea was to mimic one of those 3 tone sunbursts that faded, but I think the ones Fender made had stable red paint/stain before 1964. Another Tokai mystery...

 

[siamackz]

The old catalogues called them GSR etc in the tables at the end or other discrete places in brackets. But since you’ve never seen a stamp with the “R” they must not have put them in the cavity.

 

[Sigmania]

I mean with a "GS" with the R. It is not historically correct except for the faded finishes. And Tokai was trying to make replicas of vintage standards. That's why all of this is so puzzling.

But again, you have a great neck on a great body. I bet it's fun to play. Clapton, Gilmour, SRV all mixed and matched guitar parts on Strats to get what they wanted.

The rosewood board on the V neck of my ST80 is one of my faves. Amazing to play. Seems fast and slippery - almost like ebony to me.

 

[siamackz]

I mean with a "GS" with the R. It is not historically correct except for the faded finishes. And Tokai was trying to make replicas of vintage standards. That's why all of this is so puzzling.

But again, you have a great neck on a great body. I bet it's fun to play. Clapton, Gilmour, SRV all mixed and matched guitar parts on Strats to get what they wanted.

The rosewood board on the V neck of my ST80 is one of my faves. Amazing to play. Seems fast and slippery - almost like ebony to me.

Thanks for helping with the mystery So, in conclusion, the neck is a ST-100 because it has the "100' stamp as well as the "A" stamp. But it was not matched with the body at the factory. Right?

 

[Sigmania]

Has anyone seen a first number over 12? I know the 2nd numbers have been seen way above 31.

Probably not, because I'm told it's 'month (1st number) and batch (2nd number)' ?

Looks like you are correct. Two highly trusted members, felixcatus and Gotfried/Faber Guitars) both independently got this same information from Tokai. Mystery solved!

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26270

 

[Sigmania]

Wow. Ok. So the codes don’t match

My understanding of these codes is that what this means is a different neck was likely matched to this body and a different body to that neck.

Again, Peter or someone else may weigh in with new and different insights.

The mystery continues.

This is what I understand too. It seems the neck was a March production and the body a Jan construction, both 1980.

Looks like you are correct.

First number is the month. Second number is the batch.

Two highly trusted members, felixcatus and Gotfried/Faber Guitars) both independently got this same information from Tokai. Mystery solved!

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26270

 

[felixcatus]

Wow. Ok. So the codes don’t match

My understanding of these codes is that what this means is a different neck was likely matched to this body and a different body to that neck.

Again, Peter or someone else may weigh in with new and different insights.

The mystery continues.

This is what I understand too. It seems the neck was a March production and the body a Jan construction, both 1980.

Looks like you are correct.

First number is the month. Second number is the batch.

Two highly trusted members, felixcatus and Gotfried/Faber Guitars) both independently got this same information from Tokai. Mystery solved!

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26270

We need a like button!!! :wink:

 

[Sigmania]

And in case you didn't see it, there is a blonde 1978 ST100 for sale in the classified section that has a plain maple neck.

So another example of an atypical neck on an ST100.

Looks like one that once was sold through the Faber site that I logged with early Springys.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26280

 

[Sigmania]

More felixcatus inspired info relevant to this thread. 8)

If there were Teles might there have been Strats too? Does anyone know?

For example, the Tele with the rosewood board... end on the rosewood is the thin curved laminate style. This indicates the neck is a replica of a post 62 Fender neck and so I would expect the stamped serial to have an 'L' prefix - pre62 rosewood was a slab board. 7 scratchplate screws on a Tele is a late 50s/60s style, early 50s Teles have a five screw plate. If you want to gauge the era your pre85 Fender copy Tokai is based on, compare the details with FENDER's info.

As far as I know there are no vintage Fender Teles with a ?V? shaped neck and veneer rosewood fingerboard.

There were some produced during a strike in 1962 when the management ended up producin the necks. They are extremely rare, but they do exist.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=21283&start=30

 

[siamackz]

Sigmania, the classified one has matching stamps on neck and body so this means that non flamed necks left the factory as intentional pieces. Maybe because it’s a 1978 piece and the earliest pieces were not flamed? We would need more 1978 examples to confirm I guess. But why revert to non-flamed on my 1980 one then? Do we have any 1980 and later pieces with flame? Or was flame just made in 1979 on the st 100?

 

[Sigmania]

I'll let felixcatus take that one. 8)

 

[felixcatus]

Sigmania, the classified one has matching stamps on neck and body so this means that non flamed necks left the factory as intentional pieces. Maybe because it’s a 1978 piece and the earliest pieces were not flamed? We would need more 1978 examples to confirm I guess. But why revert to non-flamed on my 1980 one then? Do we have any 1980 and later pieces with flame? Or was flame just made in 1979 on the st 100?

1978 ST100, first half of the year production, because of the small neck plate and a '3 zero' → 8000XXX serial number.

Figured maple neck

 

[CliffsGuitarWorld]

So....... I have a couple of 1978 ST-100 with rosewood boards.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/147832065@N08/albums/72157714592290507
https://www.flickr.com/photos/147832065@N08/albums/72157704040449641

I also have a flame maple neck 1980 ST-100
https://www.flickr.com/photos/147832065@N08/albums/72157709341554637


I have a total of (6) ST-100 and (1) ST-120
https://www.flickr.com/photos/147832065@N08/albums/with/72157704040449641

 

[Sigmania]

So....... I have a couple of 1978 ST-100 with rosewood boards.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/147832065@N08/albums/72157714592290507
https://www.flickr.com/photos/147832065@N08/albums/72157704040449641

Wow.......

Are they V necks?

 

[CliffsGuitarWorld]

Yes, all "V" necks.......
I have to say the sharpest "V" neck I have come across was a 1980 Tokai TE-120..... The V was so sharp I sold it to a forum member that won't sell it back to me.. I don't blame him, but in the early days of collection these guitars We did not know how some of these models are so rare and hardly come to up for sale.

 

[Sigmania]

Geeee. I wonder who that forum member is? :lol: 8)

 

[Sigmania]

I have to say the sharpest "V" neck I have come across was a 1980 Tokai TE-120..... The V was so sharp I sold it to a forum member that won't sell it back to me.. I don't blame him, but in the early days of collection these guitars We did not know how some of these models are so rare and hardly come to up for sale.

Wow. Sounds like a nice 120....

I have a sweet ‘81 TE120 with a V neck that I got from you. 8)

So Tokai made rosewood Vs before the ST80s in 1980/81. Amazing. You’re a wealth of info Cliff. Thanks!

 

[siamackz]

Wow that’s some collection!

I noticed that both rosewood st100 were without flame neck. Just like mine. Maybe the rosewood necks didn’t come with flame?

 

[mdvineng]

Wow that’s some collection!

I noticed that both rosewood st100 were without flame neck. Just like mine. Maybe the rosewood necks didn’t come with flame?

It would of been a bit of a waste to be honest, with a rosewood finish. That Maple isn't found in every tree!