My Goldstar, but which one?

[Twanglow]

Hi - long time lurker here, very interested in the background of these great guitars. I've been a fan for 20+ years, having bought a new Breezysound in the Camden Rockshop in 1989. Still have it, tuned to a 5-string open G for Stones covers...

The question here though is my Goldie, which I bought used in 2005. It's an absolute cracker to play and is my current favourite all-rounder for pub covers gigs. People are often a bit dismissive when they see it, unless I let them pick it up and play it - it's great watching their expression change! The neck in particular is a beauty - U-shape carve, rock-hard seasoned and nicely aged maple, with a bit of tiger ripple through it. Not sure what the radius is - it does have quite a camber on it. VII pickups, quite quiet so I just crank the valves up a bit... And the lump of teak that I used to lock the trem when I first got it still does the job beautifully.

I think it's an ST-50, but it's long since lost the sticker at the base of the neck, and it would be interesting to get the views of people who see a lot of these.

Selected, not brilliant photos attached - I know, it would be really useful to have an image of the serial number on the neckplate, but I'm at work now and forgot that shot. Will add it at some point...

Thanks in advance for any thoughts/comments.

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[imosdad]

Hi Twanglow,

That's a Goldstar ST50 in Lake Placid Blue. I have one very similar except with a Rosewood board. I think LPB is a pretty rare Tokai colour. Have a search on the forum and you should find some info. There is a book that Iainblack put together which has some fantastic TokaiTastic pics and info.

Regards

Dave

 

[mirrorboy]

I see it has a round string tree, how many digits in the serial number?

 

[Twanglow]

More pics... Serial no is 226780. I had a look on the registry dating page but couldn't find anything conclusive. What's the significance of the round string trees, mirrorboy?

Cheers[/img]

 

[mirrorboy]

The earlier Goldstars with a round string tree were replicas of Fender Strats from 1954 and so they also had a 4 digit serial number. These two facts together would be a strong indicator of the TST-60 model though they are usually sunburst finish. The 6 digits serial number would indicate that yours is a TST-50. Nice colour!

 

[jonah65]

hi mirrorboy, so tokai did produce a 6 digit serial number st50?
the round stringtree and 8 hole pickguard indicating a 1954 copy?
the square stringtree indicating a cbs era strat copy?

this would clear up a bit of confusion for me as i have recently picked up a 6 digit serial no. goldstar in gold sunburst.

muccax has also just acquired a 6 digit ser. no st, but he is fortunate enough to still have the 50 sticker on the neck.

cheers, jonah.

 

[iainblack]

I was going to say I dont recall seeing many '54 copies in custom colours. Does the final prospec saddles place it as an early post springy 1983 guitar.

I thin we might have to revisit the specification chart to link how dates are linked to the specifications.

Iain

 

[mirrorboy]

My intuition is telling me that the IIV pickups are late 1985 possibly 1986 bit I gots no proof. **** them Tokais, so hard to pin down :x

 

[bluesyrat]

I thin we might have to revisit the specification chart to link how dates are linked to the specifications

Please, please do it!!! If i can make something helpful...

 

[muccax]

hi ??
i got a black goldstar with a st 50 sticker on the neck and a serial number 217297 ... mine has u pickups ,,,
i am not very good at posting pictures ,,,, but i will try
all the best
otto

 

[iainblack]

Here is the table we made for the Toaki book in terms of specs:

What we need is to create a time line for each model and the relevent specs some of which is on the registry based on the 1982 catalog (this would time limit it).

I'll get my excel spreadsheet out!

 

[jonah65]

nice one iain, the problem is we can't work out which model we have with only the 1982 catologue to use as reference.
it would seem we need to find out more information regarding serial numbers, pickups etc. for the 1982- 1985 period.
great job on the book by the way, of which i do have a copy.
please let us all know how you want to tackle the work on the new table, as it would seem like there will be quite a bit of information forthcoming.
all the best, jonah.

 

[muccax]

hi
i think it is easy ,,,,, the early goldstar sound is the same as springy sound just with another logo
...they have U and E pickups ,,, with the brass plate at the pots ...
the later goldstar ,,, no brass plate and V pickups ,,,, so easy
all the best
otto

 

[jonah65]

as in some recent threads "the lowest model with a 4 digit serial number is an st80" whereas it is in fact an st60 -harpoonman.
the only st with a 6 digit ser. no. is an st70, when in fact it could be an st40 or 50.
what about the v11 pickups?
i think there is quite a bit to sort out on the early goldstar range.
not quite so easy my friend. :lol: :lol:

 

[iainblack]

There is some software called 'Knowledge Seeker' it is used in the Pharma industry for penicillin fermentation that takes all the variables from each batch (temp / stir time / yeild etc) and compares them to give the probablity of the factors that will deliver the best yield.

Maybe we adapt it by collating all our know facts and then you put in your unknown guitar details - VII pick ups, saddles, tuners, serial numbers etc and we get the answer when we press the enter button - This is an ST80 with 90% certainty.

I mean those are the two main questions that get asked on here - what model number is it or what year was it made.

This is more complicated than decodign the human genome!

 

[muccax]

hi
you can allways id a st 42/45 ,,, just look at the tuners ,,, if it has vintage tuners ,, then st 50 but a st 50 or st 60 is not that easy ,,,, i have seen st60 with U and E pickups ,,, so you can not be sure that it is a st 60 from the pickups .... i have seen both st 50and st60 with 2 piece body
so no help there
one thing we need to remember ,,, they build guitars to make money ,,, and like leo fender in the early 50 ,,, they did not waste anything ,,,, they used all the parts they had ,,,, and now we are looking at the catalogs ,,, a st 80 must have this coulor this pickup ,,, a one piece body ,,, nitro and e pickups
but ,,,, i think they just used what they had at hand to build guitars
but that is just what i am thinking
all the best
otto

 

[jonah65]

the only problem with that otto, is that they could have just labelled them all
st 80's or 100's and made even more money.
or maybe the guy with the roll of stickers was just let loose to put whichever label he wanted to put on! :-?
i can't see that happening, especially with the japanese, i think they work to a very high code of ethics.
iains' idea would be great if he can adapt the program.
our main stumbling block is the lack of those stupid stickers on most of the st's purchased.
can i suggest we keep a record of each serial number, along with the name of the owner, and the agreed upon model number, for future reference and a way of giving each individual guitar some sort of provenance/authenticity.
this will start out as only people in our community using it, but is bound to expand as more people wish to buy old tokai st's, also making it the place to come to first to check out any particular guitar.

 

[muccax]

hi
if we talk about the 6 digit neck plate ,,,, maybe they had 5000 made ,,,, and maybe the st 70 did not sell very well ,,,, then they would have had a lot of useless neckplates ,,,,, i think they just used them ,,,, why not ...
they did not care what kind of neckplate they used ,,,,, if the boss says use this neck plate ,,, i am pretty sure the put it on the guitar ,,,
even japan companys want to make money and tokai went down in 1985

there are so many wierd spec on greco burny tokai ,,,, that all i know... is there ..is nothing for sure about mij
all the best

 

[jonah65]

what you say maybe correct, but if it is we need to know, so that in future we can maybe accept that a certain guitar can be a st 50,60, 80 or 100, even if it does not follow the rigid guide lines that seem to have been laid down from following information set out in the 1982 catologue, which to me seems to only apply to springy sounds.
great discussion otto
all the best, martin.

 

[imosdad]

I assume I am right in thinking that only the neck plate on Goldstars had the serial number printed on them. This number isn't duplicated anywhere else on the guitar?

Dave