My first tokai, need help with identifying. can anyone help?

[sun526]

I bought my first tokai last week at the Ohio summer guitar show,and i love it! I was told it was a mid eighties model. I must confess i'm a little ignorant about the Tokais,but i got a great deal on this one. It is a Love Rock model, csb finish ,Kluson deluxe w/ keystone button tuners, f.m. top, what appears to be a one piece mahogany body and and a one piece neck {no scarf joints} but does have the dimple at the top of the headstock, Tokai inlaid in m.o.p, Love Rock decaled or silk screened i dont know which process was used, Tokai 57' p.a.f. model p'ups with nikel covers, narrow cream binding showing the thicker maple top in the cut away, a changed truss rod cover to the more traditional Gibson bell style, basically all the same appointments a '59 lp reissue would have. It also has a 7 digit serial#. First four digits being 4022xxx. The case is what i believe to be the older Tokai model case, lp shape, black tolex covering, green plush lining inside, and the small brass plaque with a large star, Tokai in script writting, and in small block printing Tokai Gakki co, ltd. Is there anyone who can give me some info on my guitar? Thanks, sun526

 

[peacock72]

The serial # would indicate a '84 I think. But the "dimple" in the headstock sounds weird?! This was done on recent Love Rocks being made for export outside of Japan. I'm sure someone more knowledgable will chime in. Got pics?

 

[ian]

Serial 40xxxxx typically indicates 1984, & case also sounds like correct mid 80?s style :-? .

Maybe it?s just me, but I find the headstock ?pip? confusing . The 85 catalogue shows Love Rocks with the ?pip?, & it could easily have started in 84 or earlier. However, I?ve looked a hundreds of older Love Rocks & I only remember a few with the pip. I wonder if the pip was first used just on US export guitars?..& then added more recently on models for UK & Europe?? but maybe not used at all on domestic Japanese guitars (at least until quite recently) :roll: ??

Ian.

 

[sun526]

Sorry no pics at this time. The dimple kinda threw me to, but the guitar has not been boogered with. No refin, no neck resets and no restamping of the serial #. Thanks for the help. sun526

 

[sun526]

Ya know it makes sense now, the "pip" could have have been intro'ed in late 84 right before the new model year in 85 and possibly used only on exports to the U.S.A. since Gibson were known for lawsuits,not quality, during the late 70s up to the late 80s. What do you think?......

 

[Novosel]

Sun526 , what you've got is most likely an ALS60 from 1984. I have the almost identical one, serial #4022322, dimpled headstock, black/green case, Tokai PAF's, flamed maple top, although mine's Vintage Cherry rather than CSB. And it's great! The ALS designation is now used for Korean models, but it was used briefly in the mid-eighties for MIJ (which was all they did then), and I suspect the "dimpled" ones were for North American export - it doesn't seem to show up on Japanese and European Tokais. I've seen most Love Rocks here in North America with serial numbers of around that year, not many before or after. This leads me to think that Tokai did a big push with their American distributors then, before kind of pulling out for a few years (lawsuit rumour fallout?), till they re-emerged with their Korean line in the Canadian market in the early 90's...

My God...I'm actually learning stuff from this forum...

But to get back to your axe...if it's like mine, it's so well made - higher quality than a production line Gibson (but not quite up there with the Historic line). And my neck '57 PAF has the most useable tone of any guitar I've owned, absolutely perfect, but I'm thinking of swapping out the bridge pup for something more Peter Green. You'll find that owning a Tokai, especially an older one, is no longer something to apologize for. It will serve you well.

 

[sun526]

Novosel, thank you for the info. I think your axe would be identical to mine. Mine has a darker cherry sunburst, almost a bbq sauce color. Would this be considered a heritage "burst" on the Tokais? Its funny you should mention doing a "Peter Green" mod to yours, mine has had one done the neck p'up was changed to a Duncan with double cream bobbins and was set up to nail that "Green" out of phase sound. I also have the original Tokai 57 paf p'up in the case. While i'm on about p'ups, i have two Tokai 57 pafs with the zebra black and cream bobbins. Would these be typical for eighties models or would have someone taken the covers off? There does not seem to be any remnants of solder on the backs. A friend gave these p'ups to me about seven years ago, and he said they were out of a eighties model Love Rock. You are absolutely right about not having to make apologies for these guitars. Their quality exceeds Gibsons of their time, and match and still may exceed what Gibsons doing today with the exception of the agreed "Historic"line. Also these guitars are commanding premium at the guitar shows. Collectors are becoming aware of the following and rarity of these guitars not to mention the quality. An example would be you see one Love Rock to about every two hundred Gibson Les Pauls that is not an exaggeration. sun526 8)

 

[Novosel]

Sun526, mine is also the "bbq" shade sunburst. Tokai called this Vintage Cherry, as opposed to the brighter red of the CSB. I think models below the LS60 had uncovered zebra '57 PAF. I'd have to re-check the catalogue back issue section of the Registry - it's really a valuable source of info.

Also, mine came with chrome hardware and covers, all of which I've changed for nickel.

 

[sun526]

My guitar came with the chrome covered p'ups also, The zebra coil p'ups were gimmes from a friend. Dont know, i may sell them later. I was at Gibsons site today and noticed my Love Rock bore a striking resemblance to the "Duane Allman" signature lp Gibson did a few years ago . Thanks again for all the help identifying my axe. I'll have this one till my son inherits it! sun526 8)

 

[ian]

Not sure about Reborn & Reborn Old from 1978-80 (which often seem to have chrome covers), but from 1981 many Love Rock models (from LS50 to LS150) originally had exposed pups, both double cream & Zebra (see Catalogues in Registry). Eg, my 82 LS60 has original double exposed Zebra?s (Gotoh vintage Mk-2 PAF) :-? .

Ian.

 

[sun526]

Since i'm new to this forum forgive my ignorance, but how do i get to the catalogue section of the forum that both Ian and Novosel have mentioned in their posting? I cant seem to find where its located here. sun526. 8)

 

[sun526]

Ok , nevermind my last posting! I found the catalogue section, and i wont say how dumb i feel now that i found it. Proof positive you you should read the pages instead of skimming them! sun526