Forum Closing?

[Ozeshin]

As said in a previous post is there nothing that can be done:-

Just ban all the trouble makers now and give us one more chance?

More powers to the moderators, to allow an instant ban, as I don't think Ned spends that much time here anymore? Or is it threats from people who've been banned that's the problem?

Transfer of ownership?

Any other ideas?

Must be something we can do.....this has been a great forum!


Dave

In a nutshell:
I visit these forums EVERY day...
Yes I have some moderator rights but to be brutally frank..they are very limited...there are only a few topics that I am able to moderate and that only extends to editing/deleting posts.
Now this is fair enough as Ned wants to be the only person responsible for banning people and/or deleting accounts.
HOWEVER...
Since becoming a moderator I have been quite frustrated at the number of times that I've been bombarded with pm's relating to a topic that I have no moderator rights in and like yourselves I can only sit and watch as the **** hits the fan.
Could much of this crap have been avoided if I had moderator rights to all the topic threads?
Most probably.
I just wanted to set the record straight before people start lynching the moderators for "not doing enough" to nip issues in the bud before they got out of hand.

 

[mrsuspend]

I'd be willing to host the forum as I've got my own server on the 'net. Bandwidth might be a problem though.
At least Swedish legislation doesn't allow for this trigger happy slander silliness.... :evil:

/Magnus

 

[Ozeshin]

Getting frickin angry now...Goddamn the litigious American way of life..!!!!
(Present American company excepted) :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

As said in a previous post is there nothing that can be done:-

Just ban all the trouble makers now and give us one more chance?

More powers to the moderators, to allow an instant ban, as I don't think Ned spends that much time here anymore? Or is it threats from people who've been banned that's the problem?

Transfer of ownership?

I agree with everything Dave said.

This is a ridiculous situation. I don't understand what the issues are that have caused Ned to make such a drastic decision, but I'm sure the various people who relentlessly challenged Ned's decision to ban TJ didn't help. You were told to accept it , shut up & move on, but you wouldn't would you? :evil:

This is more than just the best source of information on Tokais, it's a happy, friendly forum with a remarkably low number of idiots, where good advice can be found on a variety of guitar related issues. It can't be allowed to die, especially not like this!

If Ned won't reconsider, is it possible to transfer ownership to one of us, or maybe a group of us? What is needed? Money? Server space? Technical knowledge? Surely between us we can come up with all of that?

 

[leadguitar_323]

but I'm sure the various people who relentlessly challenged Ned's decision to ban TJ didn't help. You were told to accept it , shut up & move on, but you wouldn't would you?

Come on Mike, lets stay rational here mate, those guys wanted to know where Joe went more than challenging Neds decision. I have spoken to a few guys through PM's and i never got the felling anyone was challenging anything, because the offending thread had been deleted, there wasn't much to explain what had happened on the forum. If i hadn't been in touch with Joe after it happened i wouldn't have known either, my computer blew up the day before the poop hit the fan.... :wink:

Mick

 

[BlueThird]

As it happens, Stratman, I agree with pretty much everything you've said as well. But I really think it would be for the best if we managed to keep this thread free of recriminations. The last thing any of us want is to lose the forum ??I've only been around for two minutes but can see that it's **** important ??and if we start blaming each other we might well end up in the position where this thread gets locked too. It's quite understandable if Ned's had enough, what really matters now is to make sure that something worthwhile is salvaged from the mess.

 

[Anonymous]

As it happens, Stratman, I agree with pretty much everything you've said as well. But I really think it would be for the best if we managed to keep this thread free of recriminations. The last thing any of us want is to lose the forum ??I've only been around for two minutes but can see that it's **** important ??and if we start blaming each other we might well end up in the position where this thread gets locked too. It's quite understandable if Ned's had enough, what really matters now is to make sure that something worthwhile is salvaged from the mess.

Fair point.

 

[luis]

Let?s get positive.........What can we do to work with this situation?
I?m not very active lately,not only in this forum but others too, but I would not like Tokaiforum die......What about more articles? I have a Fernandes one I could donate but someone have to traslate to english....

 

[Diamond]

Compared to TGP forum this place is like a Nursery School.

In the years I've been here I've seen very little friction between members and moderators, almost no arguments to speak of, in fact it seemed like everyone was just high on a great drug called 'Tokai'.

Seems like a massive waste for this place to lay down and die.

IMO

 

[labbi]

Without a good TGR or something like it, it becomes a problem to deal the different instruments since traders need the tgr as much as the buyer.

But it seems quantity is winning over quality. MIJ and MIC doesn?t go well together in terms of keeping a quality oriented forum going.

TGR is a substitute for going to the shop and pick it up yourself- your guitar.

To me it seems the market is too big for the TGR, and it?s difficult for Ned to control the buisnessmen crawling this forum, I believe thats the buttomline. Who threatened him with lawsuits- Me !?
:lol:

Btw, does anyone know if Rich aka MIJvintage and Richtone is the same guy ?
Richtone has sooo many new guitars on sale, it seems they are almost stockpiling them.

But anyway I believe the TGR as it is, is dying , and it wil emerge as something else- hence Ned?s last warning.
It started as a place to discuss vintage guitars, but I guess the main focus is now new guitars, and I wouldn?t be surprised if Tokai Gakki is tired of all the historic value being piled up here, afterall they never gave in and changed their stupid numbering system.

And the way Ned has been responding lately it seems like this is it.

The only thing I have been advocating for is that the TGR should stay focused on quality. This is the single most important thing.

But I have noticed that along the way more and more stupid singleminded buisnessmen have hijacked the various threads and turned a lovely conversation into a game of raising the prices and keeping the myths alive.
Our famous friend did a lot to try and stop that, but he was offcourse banned. I don?t believe the BS about law suits etc. Law Suits started this whole Forum :lol: but I believe that buisness is the number 1 topdog in here, and as such I feel like going to my local guitardealer next time
because I know what he looks like and what he wants. I am fed up with
scam artists and this forum is filled to the brim with those guys !
And all they do is using scare tactics.

Cheers guys..

 

[glaister3]

I`d second that for sure Diamond! I havn`t been a member of this forum for long but it`s certainly one of the best I`ve come across.It`s information value is huge,it`s alive(lots seem to be dead/dying due to cliques) and to a newcomer it seems to be amicable!

It`s too good to loose!!!

 

[JVsearch]

I am very saddened by this news but if Ned's had enough then so be it, that's modern life!

If anyone comes up with an idea to save all the material on here, or continue it somehow, I will do anything I can to help.

Also, there's no point in people crapping on Labbi, because when a situation is not fully explained, people speculate. That's all it is.

Speaking generally about forum control, a owner/moderator simply can't control what is said on the forum all the time, and the law should only require them to act appropriately when offending material does arise, that is, delete the material and suspend/ban perpetrators. It seems to me that the law couldn't expect anything more, if it does then that just means the law requires the death of all hobbyist forums. Then again, maybe the law really is an ***!

 

[MIJvintage]

Maybe some here should understand why Ned stated the forum would be shut down.
?Due to the continuous thread of lawsuits do to slanderous posts on this forum the forum will shut down on 1/31/2010.?

The below article can shed some light on the general issue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
"Defamation" is the general term used internationally, and is used in this article where it is not necessary to distinguish between "slander" and "libel". Libel and slander both require publication. The fundamental distinction between libel and slander lies solely in the form in which the defamatory matter is published. If the offending material is published in some fleeting form, as by spoken words or sounds, sign language, gestures and the like, then this is slander. If it is published in more durable form, for example in written words, film, compact disc (CD), DVD, blogging and the like, then it is considered libel." The debate whether Internet blogs or Bulletin Boards are publishers is a key subject being addressed, whereas an Internet based community is more akin to conversations in a bar or pub, with content being written as an ongoing dialogue that is generally not edited or regulated such as in the publishing industry.


Below is an excerpt of an opinion that I offered in a recent thread in which (in my opinion) Ned was being ?second guessed? by several members.
?Any online forum exist only because of the interest that it?s owners & it?s moderators have in the subject matter at hand.
It is only because of these forum owners & moderators that any of these forums exist.
It cost real money, and real time to host these online forums.?
IMO, the above statement is true for any online forum.
The membership of any online forum should understand that running these forums is a lot of work, and that it takes effort, time, and money.

I cannot speak for Ned, or for any online forum owner, and I do not presume to do so but I can try and put myself in the shoes of one of these forum owners.
Would I as a forum owner, or would anyone of us as a forum owner want to have members discuss issues that are not, ?interest that it?s owners & it?s moderators have in the subject matter at hand??
If any one of us were the owner of an online forum, would any one of us want to be threatened with, or have to defend against a libel law suit?
I would have to answer no to both questions.
Again, I do not presume to speak for Ned but maybe Ned has had enough of the ?noise? here.

Just my thoughts on the matter ??????

 

[mirrorboy]

I can only urge those who are concerned about the closure of the Tokai Forum to spare some time to listen to a serious discussion about the root issues concerning this situation. You only need to listen to the first 36 minutes.

http://thedrilldown.com/2009/08/24/...ch-vs-harassment-the-end-of-online-anonymity/

Maybe then it will be understood how this type of situation only benefits mean-spirited individuals and lawyers at the end of the day. It also goes some way to dispelling the myth that litigation of this sort can only happen in America.

As for those who are not concerned about the closure of the Tokai Forum, I have no answer.

 

[Anonymous]

Btw, does anyone know if Rich aka MIJvintage and Richtone is the same guy ?
Richtone has sooo many new guitars on sale, it seems they are almost stockpiling them.

Since one is in Sheffield, England, & the other is in Saint Paul, Minnesota, USA, that seems rather unlikley to me.

:roll:

 

[MIJvintage]

sorry, was supposed to be a PM ..........

 

[Anonymous]

But I have noticed that along the way more and more stupid singleminded buisnessmen have hijacked the various threads and turned a lovely conversation into a game of raising the prices and keeping the myths alive.
Our famous friend did a lot to try and stop that, but he was offcourse banned. I don?t believe the BS about law suits etc. Law Suits started this whole Forum :lol: but I believe that buisness is the number 1 topdog in here, and as such I feel like going to my local guitardealer next time
because I know what he looks like and what he wants. I am fed up with
scam artists and this forum is filled to the brim with those guys !
And all they do is using scare tactics.

What complete BS! That sounds like TJ in the middle of one of his infamous rants. :evil: There isn't a problem with "businessmen" on here, neither are "dealers" a problem, except in the minds of a few people.

As for hijacking threads, isn't that exactly what you are doing here? We're discussing our dismay at the apparent demise of this forum, & you get on your soapbox to preach - again. :x

Very sad....

 

[MIJvintage]

Btw, does anyone know if Rich aka MIJvintage and Richtone is the same guy ?
Richtone has sooo many new guitars on sale, it seems they are almost stockpiling them.

Since one is in Sheffield, England, & the other is in Saint Paul, Minnesota, USA, that seems rather unlikley to me.

:roll:

Thanks Mike; very well said :wink:

now I won't have to send that PM ......................

 

[labbi]

Thats exactly what I referred to:

Scaretactics.

You can have the shoebox I am living in, no problem,shoeboxes are not that hard to find.

Other than that- I believe you all now know that I am not bullshitting you.

 

[labbi]

Do you have a problem with soapboxes ?

But I have noticed that along the way more and more stupid singleminded buisnessmen have hijacked the various threads and turned a lovely conversation into a game of raising the prices and keeping the myths alive.
Our famous friend did a lot to try and stop that, but he was offcourse banned. I don?t believe the BS about law suits etc. Law Suits started this whole Forum :lol: but I believe that buisness is the number 1 topdog in here, and as such I feel like going to my local guitardealer next time
because I know what he looks like and what he wants. I am fed up with
scam artists and this forum is filled to the brim with those guys !
And all they do is using scare tactics.

What complete BS! That sounds like TJ in the middle of one of his infamous rants. :evil: There isn't a problem with "businessmen" on here, neither are "dealers" a problem, except in the minds of a few people.

As for hijacking threads, isn't that exactly what you are doing here? We're discussing our dismay at the apparent demise of this forum, & you get on your soapbox to preach - again. :x

Very sad....