For sale section

[JVsearch]

The only way to stop rip-offs is to fully research the item for sale, ask questions, get photos etc and as MIJ has said - if the seller can't/wont give you satisfaction, then WALK AWAY.

This is primarily on the buyer, and people have to get used to walking away because it's all we've got these days - control of our spending dollars.

Another bit of advice from personal experience - if a seller says to you, "it is what it is" immediately walk away. Lol

 

[Big Willie Style]

The only way to stop rip-offs is to fully research the item for sale, ask questions, get photos etc and as MIJ has said - if the seller can't/wont give you satisfaction, then WALK AWAY.

This is primarily on the buyer, and people have to get used to walking away because it's all we've got these days - control of our spending dollars.

Another bit of advice from personal experience - if a seller says to you, "it is what it is" immediately walk away. Lol

Good points. Now, does anyone want to buy a MINT 1962 Tokki Sprinny Sound ST-100 for $200? ha ha :lol:

 

[Dave_Mc]

I'm with mick and mike ( :lol: )- some system which at least makes it harder to join for the sole purpose of ripping people off would be a good thing. Problem is, both minimum post, and minimum length of time as a member can be abused- perhaps make it that you have to be a member for, say, 2 months, and also have a minimum post count of, say, 50? That way you can't join and spam up the forum so you can sell, and you also can't join 2 months in advance and just let your account lie idle, counting down the days until you can post a fraudulent ad. Some system of preventing spamming too, so you can't spam once the waiting period is up so you can sell, might be a good idea, too, though it might be too difficult and subjective to implement.

I would add, though, that John has some good points, too- you run the risk of legitimising all members who've been here longer than a certain time, some kind of disclaimer which says you should still exercise extreme caution when entering into any deal, and that just because the seller has been a member for so long, and has so many posts, doesn't necessarily mean the deal still isn't a gip.

Alienating new members would also be a concern- certainly every new member isn't out to rip off the existing members, but I'm not sure what you can really do to prevent that sense of alienation or suspicion. On the basis of doing less harm, I'd rather someone got his or her feelings hurt slightly than someone else got ripped off, kind of thing.

My 2 cents, anyway.

 

[Mole Man]

I'm also finding myself siding with both Mick & Mike also on this question.

I've long thought that there should be some kind of mechanism to at least prevent Forum members with absolutely no standing (i.e. less than a dozen or so posts and not even a month on here) from parachuting in and placing a classified ad with their very first post. That to me is an abuse (not a fair use) of this fine forum. Of course, no system is foolproof and standard caveats about buyer beware still would need to apply, but having some kind of safeguard is surely better than having none at all? It's also a slap in the face for the established membership (not to mention the Tokai dealer members on here that all contribute to the wellbeing of the forum - even when they haven't got the immediate financial motive of selling a guitar). In fact I'm only surprised that the current situation has been tolerated for so long...

 

[JohnA]

But isn't it better that an honest guy (or gal) with a nice Tokai they are thinking about selling does a search on the internet, finds this forum and advertises it here, rather than slinging it on ebay?

 

[Dave_Mc]

aren't you covered better on ebay, though? I can only speak for myself, but if it were a really new member I'd prefer to buy from them through ebay, kind of thing.

 

[youami]

I vote for no change, caveat emptor is the only rule worth applying.

This is an Internet forum and occasionally people are going to get burned if they choose to use the classifieds. People need to learn to watch out for themselves.

 

[MIJvintage]

The only way to stop rip-offs is to fully research the item for sale, ask questions, get photos etc and as MIJ has said - if the seller can't/wont give you satisfaction, then WALK AWAY.

couldn't have said it better myself :lol: ...........................

 

[leadguitar_323]

I was simply passing comment on a growing impression I get from various threads recently (including this one) that this forum seems to have swung towards being newbie hostile.

Actually there have been 2 separate incidents that come to mind recently and both {well 1 for certain} were previous members under new names, one of these guys misrepresented a sale a while ago, disappeared for a long while then came back with a new name, the second guy had some WRONG info and eventually came around, both weren't new members. You see, when you are a new member it is easy to assume a certain situation, the problem being that you don't know the history. I can't recall one incident where a new member was treated the way you say. Anyway, this was put up for discussion for the good of ALL members and a discussion it has been, no one is pointing the finger at anyone and the replies have been interesting on both sides of the story so i suppose it has achieved the desired result.


Mick

 

[Anonymous]

What policy do other forums have?

 

[leadguitar_323]

On the bike forum i referred to earlier, they are sort of self regulating i suppose you could say, like some have said here, check the person selling out well, try and view goods and ask questions like, does any one else know the seller and so on. Its not fool proof as i have said earlier, the guy that ripped forum members off also did a runner on his ebay sales as well, at last look 6 negatives in a week, ebay has closed his account.

Mick

 

[stratfan]

As I'm presumably an 'unknown jackass', having a low post count and relatively little knowledge of Tokais, being a new convert, I guess I will be shot down in a hail of self righteous fire by the establishment here.

I read this thread with surprise.

The central premise seems to be that new members, sorry jackasses, who in general will know a lot less about the subject than long established members, are going to be wily enough to rip off those who have been posting here for a long time and presumably are experts on Tokais.

If newcomers to the forum are unwelcome, please let me know so I can deregister forthwith.

Hi Griff, I know you said that you don't want to be "drawn" into an argument, but that is exactly what you wanted by making that post. If you are going to distort another member's post, you are obviously in the market for an argument. I don't recall anyone being referred to as a jackass, nor have I been treated in a negative way since joining this forum. On the contrary, I have received nothing but good advice, help, and friendliness from other forum members. If you don't like controversy, don't start it.

I would not say that longevity on any forum makes one an expert, nor does it follow that a new member to a forum is totally clueless. Making sweeping statements like that implies ignorance...

On the point about new members plying their wares, I have seen a trend of new members asking many questions about their Tokai guitars, "Please help me identify the model, age, and value", only to be given ALL the help in the world by other forum members, and then turn right around and say "I've just realized that I don't like Strats/Teles/LPs anymore, so I'm selling mine for $XXX". In my opinion, that is abusing the good nature of the forum, and thankfully, many of those people soon leave.

 

[JVsearch]

What policy do other forums have?

The Les Paul forum and TGP only allow subscribers to sell - that is you have to pay a subscription. It's not a lot of money, but then the admins have your credit card or Paypal details as well so it's a bit of a deterrent for crooks, and it's just another little obstacle for a potential seller to deal with. Hopefully it makes it more likely that they are genuine.

Having said that there was a huge rip-off/fraud on the LP forum involving a member with 7000+ posts, the fraud amounted to a few thousand dollars not a few hundred for saying a model was higher than it was or it had hidden faults. The forum crapped on him heavily and he had to make it right by the buyer in the end, but only when the pressure and fear of prosecution got to him. It shows that in rare cases, a good member can turn bad, possibly he had money problems or something.

 

[settebello]

What policy do other forums have?

Buy, Sell & Trade
Place your items for sale here.
Only members with 30 days membership can post/view this section.
After the 30 day requirement has been met,
please PM (NOT EMAIL) either "Lefty" or "Don" for the password.

Classified rules from the Dr.Z forum,but we need second moderator to
handle it like that.I dont think Ned have the time,imho.

Volker

 

[MIJvintage]

What policy do other forums have?

The Les Paul forum and TGP only allow subscribers to sell - that is you have to pay a subscription.

TGP has three levels of costs:
Gold Supporting Member = $50 year
Silver Supporting Member = $25 year
Supporting Member = $12 year
In May I chose the $50 per year cost, and have only listed one guitar there, so far.
That's $4.16 per month 8) which is the 'nice price'.

Because of the crap economy I have not attempted many sales in the last year.
Buyers seem to believe that some sellers are willing to give stuff away now, LOL, well I'm not one of those sellers...........
I have sold only four, or five guitars in 2009; most selling on eBay.

The cost here on the TF ($50 per month/$600 per year) is prohibitive unless one is a high volume seller.

 

[JVsearch]

What policy do other forums have?

The Les Paul forum and TGP only allow subscribers to sell - that is you have to pay a subscription.

TGP has three levels of costs:
Gold Supporting Member = $50 year
Silver Supporting Member = $25 year
Supporting Member = $12 year
In May I chose the $50 per year cost, and have only listed one guitar there, so far.
That's $4.16 per month 8) which is the 'nice price'.

Because of the crap economy I have not attempted many sales in the last year.
Buyers seem to believe that some sellers are willing to give stuff away now, LOL, well I'm not one of those sellers...........
I have sold only four, or five guitars in 2009; most selling on eBay.

The cost here on the TF ($50 per month/$600 per year) is prohibitive unless one is a high volume seller.

The LPF and TGP subscribers facility is only for regular members, not dealers. AFAIK dealers pay a lot more on the LPF and TGP? What I mean by dealer is anyone who holds themselves out as a dealer, not whether you have a shop or licence or anything like that, but there is a bit of a fuzzy grey line between who is a dealer and who isn't!

I'm saying all this because I have an idea from somewhere that you're a "dealer"?

 

[JohnA]

If mij has only sold 4 or 5 guitars in 2009 I don't think that's enough to warrant calling him a dealer for the purposes of restricting him from posting for-sale ads.

 

[JVsearch]

If mij has only sold 4 or 5 guitars in 2009 I don't think that's enough to warrant calling him a dealer for the purposes of restricting him from posting for-sale ads.

That's not what I'm saying.

It seems here he is treated as a dealer? Most of us post a for sale ad for free, how come he has to pay all that cash ($600)?

My point was that if you are a dealer on TGP or LPF you will pay more than the normal subscription rate of $50 per year, which is what regular members pay. However I don't know how it all works. The comparison between regular subscriber prices on TGP and dealer charges on the TF (if that's what's happening) is not the right comparison to make.

 

[Dave_Mc]

What policy do other forums have?

only one i know of which has a policy is the bareknuckle pickups forum, there's a minimum post count (50, i think?)...

 

[MIJvintage]

have seen the word 'dealer' used here but I really don't know what qualifies one to be a ?dealer?

ask 100 church members what a particular scripture means, and you will likely get 100 different answers

the bottom line is I don't use the classified on the TF, for selling or for buying

OK Ryan, I did once :lol: .....................