Es versus Love Rock

[Lesblues]

Hi guys

I am a relatively new guitarist and stumbled across Tokai guitars when I bought a used Korean Love Rock last year as my first Guitar.

I like the Blues and I really like the look of the Tokai MIJ ES guitars. From researching the guitars and browsing this forum I know that the difference in build quality between MIJ and Korean is huge. However as a newbie guitarist what I don't know is what differences in sound/tone should I expect between the semi-hollow Es and a solid body love rock. Also are the pick ups substantially different on the two types of guitar?

Basically while I think the ES looks really great I don't want to spend a huge amount of cash to buy a guitar that does not sound too different from what I already have.

I know that the best thing to do would be to find an ES to try but there is a dearth of stockists in my part of Scotland. I think my nearest dealer is Richtone Music in Sheffield. Which is a long way to go to try a guitar on spec! So any opinions/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your help chaps.

Les

 

[jyster]

Hi,

Don't know where in Scotland you are, but I know that there's a shop in Hamilton who is now stocking Tokais. I saw a LS and SG in the window. Haven't been in, but he may have an ES. Here's a link. No mention of Tokai, but he definitely has them.
http://www.hamiltonmusic.biz/page12.html

Alternatively, have a go on a Gibson ES335, see if you like the sound that makes. The Tokai ES is a copy of that, so you will get a good idea.

 

[Lesblues]

Hi

Thanks for the heads up re: the shop in Hamilton. I'm over in the east but it would definitely be easier to get to Hamilton than Sheffield.

I have tried a gibson es 335 and I did like it but not the price tag (I think I mentioned I'm Scottish )

I was wondering are the pickups that different between the Love Rock and the ES?

 

[jyster]

Hi,
Yeh, I know what you mean about the Gibson price-tag.
If you look at http://www.tokai-guitars.co.uk/inde...ategory_id=15&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=31 you'll see the specs of the various guitars. The LS and the ES have the same PAF mkII pickups.
There will, of course, be a big difference in the sound of the two guitars, even with identical pickups.

I changed out my Tokai pickups for a set of Gibson burstbucker pros. I prefer the sound of the Gibson pickups in my LS90Q.

 

[Lesblues]

Hi jyster

I thought the es had Paf Mk ii and the Love Rock had Paf MK iv. Not that I have a clue what this actually means. I just wondered how differently I should expect the two guitars to sound from each other. I know that one is a semi-hollow and one is not and I expect that to make a difference. However the ES does have a solid piece of wood running up the interior to help with sustain and the pickups seem to be similar so should the guitar sound so very different? It's all a bit confusing for a novice. Thanks again for your input. I have emailed the shop in Hamilton to find out if they have an ES in Store.

Les

 

[Anonymous]

Hi. After 25 years of playing Strats, I bought an ES130 recently. I'm not a Les Paul expert, & I don't know how to describe the difference between a LP & a 335, but I like the ES far more than I expected to, & more than any LP I've tried. Hard to describe, but the sound is like the guitar - less heavy.

And with the out-of-phase mod now done - see this thread for details:

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=9603

...it has an added sound which I love. I guess the out-of-phase sound is close to what Peter Green got from his LP, but there's an added something - space, if that makes any sense?

All I can say is try a 335 - even if it's a Gibson - and see if you think it will suit you. I have been pleasantly surprised. And mine is prettier than most Gibsons too.



Mike

 

[Mole Man]

Hi. After 25 years of playing Strats, I bought an ES130 recently. I'm not a Les Paul expert, & I don't know how to describe the difference between a LP & a 335, but I like the ES far more than I expected to, & more than any LP I've tried. Hard to describe, but the sound is like the guitar - less heavy.

And with the out-of-phase mod now done - see this thread for details:

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=9603

...it has an added sound which I love. I guess the out-of-phase sound is close to what Peter Green got from his LP, but there's an added something - space, if that makes any sense?

All I can say is try a 335 - even if it's a Gibson - and see if you think it will suit you. I have been pleasantly surprised. And mine is prettier than most Gibsons too.


Mike

No need to boast, old man!

Second the ES-335 route, it's a vastly underrated guitar.

Best regards,
Darren/MM

 

[marcusnieman]

No need to boast, old man!

Second the ES-335 route, it's a vastly underrated guitar.

Best regards,
Darren/MM

This song was recorded with a 335 and even in a rock capacity it really stands out tonally. Also a 335 on the album art:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RfBfA_Z-_s

and lead guitar/vocals Bill Nelson with his trusty ax: http://www.huxrecords.com/bebop3.jpg

 

[goldie]

This song was recorded with a 335 and even in a rock capacity it really stands out tonally. Also a 335 on the album art:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RfBfA_Z-_s
and lead guitar/vocals Bill Nelson with his trusty ax: http://www.huxrecords.com/bebop3.jpg

Hi,

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=b0bRdGdAzeE&feature=related

In this video he plays an ES 345. His trusty ax .

 

[guitarslinger]

Hi jyster

I thought the es had Paf Mk ii and the Love Rock had Paf MK iv. Not that I have a clue what this actually means. I just wondered how differently I should expect the two guitars to sound from each other. I know that one is a semi-hollow and one is not and I expect that to make a difference. However the ES does have a solid piece of wood running up the interior to help with sustain and the pickups seem to be similar so should the guitar sound so very different? It's all a bit confusing for a novice. Thanks again for your input. I have emailed the shop in Hamilton to find out if they have an ES in Store.

Les

MKIIs are in most current Japanese models. The MK4s are Korean components which are presently fitted in the Chinese range of instruments.

Cheers

 

[AlanN]

Lesblues,

As an avid ES and LP player, I can't stress enough the difference in tone you get between them. Yes, there's a little commonality introduced with the solid centre block and sure, putting the same pickups in two types of guitar will give them similar voices, but those semi-acoustic wings aren't for show you know.

A thinline semi has, as Mike pointed out, a "hollow" element to its tone, with a more pronounced nasal twang than the thick meaty bones of a solid body Les Paul. They're therefore slightly better at cutting through a mix and (to me at least) slightly easier to coax great tone out of.

That said, the main difference for me is how much more "alive" a semi feels than a solid body instrument - crank up the gain, and they'll almost play a tune for you; they dance in your hands as you play. Whether they really do offer a greater dynamic range isn't an argument I want to continue here, but they certainly inspire me to play more dynamically.

Thinline count: 3 Gib**ns, 2 Tokais, 1 Greco and counting...

 

[Anonymous]

Is it fair to say that it's harder, & therefore more expensive, to make a good 335 than a good LP?

 

[AlanN]

Absolutely. It requires more specialised equipment (steam presses etc) than routing a couple of pieces of wood and clamping them, so although they take less wood to produce overall, the expense of the process means the bottom line is often more. No option to seam anything either - so although you're talking building layers of laminated wood, they've got to be fairly large, continuous pieces.

Put it this way, I've happily hand-built two Les Pauls, but wouldn't dream of attempting a 335

 

[AlanN]

Lesblues, here's a good test for you: try to find some Youtube demos of the ES336 and ES339. They look *very* similar, but the 336 is built like a chambered Les Paul, and the 339 is built the same way as the ES-335. The 336 has a very LP-like tone, and the 339 is very 335-like.

 

[Lesblues]

Hi guys

Thanks for all of the help. I have hungered after an ES since I first saw them and really want to find one to try out. I feel a lot more confident about the difference between an ES and my LP thanks to your input. I was beginning to think I might have to go down the pure hollow body route, like a Gretsch but they sound a little Too "Hillbilly" for my taste.

So now I just have to find an ES I can have a play on and then persuade my wife that another guitar is a good idea.

Thanks again.

Les

 

[Anonymous]

If you want a hollow guitar, there's also the Gibson ES330/Epiphone Casino - no centre block, & P90s instead of humbuckers. They look similar to a 335, but they feel & sound very different, but there isn't the same rockabilly association that a Gretsch has.

I had a Korean Casino, & I wasn't too impressed, but the guy who bought it from me loved it. There isn't a Tokai equivalent though, which is a shame.

 

[Lesblues]

marcusnieman wrote:

This song was recorded with a 335 and even in a rock capacity it really stands out tonally. Also a 335 on the album art:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RfBfA_Z-_s

I don't think I want my new guitar to look like that! but it sounds good.

stratman323 wrote:

If you want a hollow guitar, there's also the Gibson ES330/Epiphone Casino - no centre block, & P90s instead of humbuckers. They look similar to a 335, but they feel & sound very different, but there isn't the same rockabilly association that a Gretsch has.

I had a Korean Casino, & I wasn't too impressed, but the guy who bought it from me loved it. There isn't a Tokai equivalent though, which is a shame

I can't stretch to the price of a Gibson (hard enough to get agreement to fork out on a Tokai, especially as I'm a real novice player) and I have not been very impressed by the epiphones I have tried so far. But I take on board what you say about the rockabilly associations. Otherwise I might have to start listening to the Stray Cats

Les

 

[AlanN]

The Casino was an original Epiphone instrument, so tend to be slightly better quality than their LP or 335 copies. That said, if you like to play with any level of distortion I'd avoid them like the plague; no amount of bubblewrap padding would stop the one I owned from squealing like a banshee at the first sight of a distortion pedal.