E pickups - are they really any good?

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I have two Springys, both rosewood board 1980 models, one ST60, and one ST80. Both have E pickups. Both are good guitars, with very nice looking 2 piece ash bodies.

However, I've read several people on here say that the E pickups are wonderful, some say they are the best Strat pickups available, and many say that they are hotter than standard Tokai Strat pickups. But I'm not so sure....

I took my ST80 to rehearsal last night, along with a new (to me) Fernandes Strat fitted with Kent Armstrong STV4N, STV-1R, & STH-1 pickups. I also took my 1988 Fender US62RI. I love the feel of the ST80 (now I've got used to the strange V neck), but the sound let the whole thing down. It's thin and a bit weak sounding, and the Fernandes sounded much better - louder, fuller, richer, more depth.

So what is it about the E pickups that I'm missing? They read between 5.4k and 5.7k, which is lower than most of the other Strat pickups I have - Kent Armstrong & Seymour Duncans mainly, along with Fender USRI pickups. I realise that the construction of the guitars might have something to do with it - they are ash bodied, and have a thin rosewood cap, so a US Fender with a slab board and alder body should sound fatter and warmer. But the Fernandes is a fairly basic model with a maple neck, so should be brighter than the Springys.

So I can only assume that the Es are fairly weak and thin sounding pickups. So could people please tell me what it is about the Es that you rate so highly, perhaps also telling me what you have compared them to?

Thanks.

Mike
 
stratman323 said:
I have two Springys, both rosewood board 1980 models, one ST60, and one ST80. Both have E pickups. Both are good guitars, with very nice looking 2 piece ash bodies.

However, I've read several people on here say that the E pickups are wonderful, some say they are the best Strat pickups available, and many say that they are hotter than standard Tokai Strat pickups. But I'm not so sure....

I took my ST80 to rehearsal last night, along with a new (to me) Fernandes Strat fitted with Kent Armstrong STV4N, STV-1R, & STH-1 pickups. I also took my 1988 Fender US62RI. I love the feel of the ST80 (now I've got used to the strange V neck), but the sound let the whole thing down. It's thin and a bit weak sounding, and the Fernandes sounded much better - louder, fuller, richer, more depth.

So what is it about the E pickups that I'm missing? They read between 5.4k and 5.7k, which is lower than most of the other Strat pickups I have - Kent Armstrong & Seymour Duncans mainly, along with Fender USRI pickups. I realise that the construction of the guitars might have something to do with it - they are ash bodied, and have a thin rosewood cap, so a US Fender with a slab board and alder body should sound fatter and warmer. But the Fernandes is a fairly basic model with a maple neck, so should be brighter than the Springys.

So I can only assume that the Es are fairly weak and thin sounding pickups. So could people please tell me what it is about the Es that you rate so highly, perhaps also telling me what you have compared them to?

Thanks.

Mike
Click to expand...

I have two Springys - An ST80 with E pups and an ST60 with U pups. Love them both but I too think the E pups are as good as they get.

They're modeled after vintage Fender pups which had rather low output than the newer single coils. My 65 Strat pups put out between 5.2 and 5.5 They're not too hot and have a very nice round, full tone without being mushy or too shrill.

My E pups are kind of the same way. For me, played through a lower output amp (15 watts - 25 watts) with the amp cranked a bit to get a little overdrive out of the pushed tubes, those pickups sound great. Amps have alot to do with how they sound too. I play pretty clean through my amps without pedals or effects and use the amp volume for overdrive. I like the sound through a Fender Super Reverb or a Magnatone alot better than through a Marshall or a Vox.

But it's really a matter of personal preference and what you want to hear out of your pickups and your overall tone. Single coil pickups can be kind of thin and modern technology has moved toward punching up the output a bit.
 
I think low output pickups have more dynamic range and sound much less compressed than overwound pickups. Hotter pickups always sound too mid-rangey to me as well.

I have a Goldstar TST-55 with 'V 1' pickups that all measure 5.6kOhms and it sounds wonderful (glassy chime with a solid bottom end) played through a Fender Pro Reverb. I used to have a Laney LC10 and a Fender Pro Junior and I think it does sound a bit thin through EL84 tube amps. What amp do you use with your guitars?

I don't know what the attributes of the 'E' pickups are, but I've often wondered whether they are scatter wound for more authenticity or maybe the magnet material is a different alloy (different AlNiCo composition).
 
It's not just about output, I don't usually like high output pickups, but the Es just sound thin to my ears, compared to the Fender US ones, Duncans or KAs. My Fenders read from 5.8 to 6.1, Voodoo ST60s 6.1 to 6.4, SD Vintage 6.4 to 6.7, KA Vintage around 6.5. So readings for most vintage re-issue pickups that I have tried are anywhere between 5.8 & 6.5.

I tried Texas Specials, but I found them too muddy, so it's not as if I like heavy sounding pickups. I play through a Fender Blues Deluxe, usually fairly clean, but not always.

It was the comparison between the Fernandes and the Springy that reallt surprised me last night, so it's not as if I'm camparing the Es to something very expensive. It couldn't just be the ash body could it?
 
On both Springys? Soundwise they are virtually the same.

Incidentally Mark, both Springys are from reputable sources - the 80 was bought from you, the 60 from togps, though in both cases I bought from the people who had bought them from you and Gottfried. I just mention this so you know their origin.
 
If the magnets had become degaussed, would that lower the readings when measured with a multi-meter?
 
I know you can get magnets 'zapped' to restore them to their full strength, often used for electric motors, don't know if it can be done with pickups??
 
One of Mike's Tokais, the ST80 I know well, it used to be mine, I've also had an ST60 with 'E' pickups and currently have a loan of another ST80. They all sound very much the same.

There's no evidence that the pickups have deteriorated, it's too much of a coincedence to assume all three sets have gone exactly the same way.

I also don't think they were particuarly thin, I now have a Fernandes Strat that definetely sounds 'fatter' than the Tokai, but compared to a US RI I used to have, and a JV Strat I thought the Tokai sounded very full.

I think it's just relative, Mike probably has some fat sounding Strats and the E series sound thin compared to them.

What you need is someone local who has an ST80 they think is great and compare the two side-by-side through the same amp, there must be someone in London prepared to do that. I think the outcome will be you're pickups will be fine, just not right for you.
 
I think you're right John, I have no reason to believe that the pickups have deteriorated, at least not on both sets, to the same degree. The point of my post was to ask what it is about these pickups that causes people to rave about them, yet nobody has really explained that to me.

There must be other people who have E fitted guitars as well as other Strats with different vintage style pickups - I can't be the only one! Why do you think they are so good? Has anyone tried replacing the pickups in a Springy? What was the result?

As for swapping them, clearly I wouldn't be that stupid. If I changed them, I would keep the Es in case I want to change them back, or in case I sell the guitar at a later date.

So come on guys - what is it about them that you like?
 
Mike,
I?ve heard your complait before regarding Tokai strats replicas are thinner sounding,so it must be not only your case . I never had any Springy,just had a AST and 2 Silver Stars not thin sounding in fact a SS have strong sounds for a start style guitar...have a line on a TST-50 near,will try to play it if possible and see my impressions...
 
I'm curious Mike--what material is the Fernandes guitar you were comparing your Tokais to made out of? I have 3 ash body strats, one a Springy with E pickups in it, another a Sigma, with 2 Tokai VIIs and an E at the bridge, and my Silver Star (SS-80), which I have temporarily swapped out the stock Dimarzio pickups (black backed--not sure model, but stock for SS-80s) for a set of Tokai U's. All of these are fairly similar in tonal character--bright, with a slightly nasal charactaristic compared to my alder ones. The Dimarzios are really bright and hot in the Silver Star--really good for rock, but not terribly versatile at first listen. The U pickups make the Silver Star a bit mellower than the other two.

I don't have any alder bodied strats with E pickups in them. I have another Springy that I believe is alder with Seymour Duncans in it--very nice sounding and mellower than all of my ash bodied strats. I also have an alder Goldstar with U pickups which is comparable in tone--a really nice sounding guitar. I have a gut feeling the E pickups bring out a bit more of the natural brighter tone you get from ash--it's a question of whether you like that sound. Personally in terms of tone, I often prefer alder for strats and ash for teles although you'll certainly find me playing my ash strats a fair amount of the time.

:D
________
INDIA
 
My St 100 pups read 6.1 neck 6.2 middle and 6.3 bridge.

I believe my St 80 reads about the same.

When I play it through My tweed blues Jr limited, it sounds a little thin, but still has a dynamic range and the bass notes are definately there. Of course it is a one 12' speaker and low watts. BUt both springys definately have that woody, boxxy, vintage tone that is what you find in the Texas players that you like. They both have the great feel and tone. Remember that degaussed pups are a good thing usually. When the magnets get weaker over 20 years or so, you get a warmer breaking up of the tone and loose the shrilly high notes, they become warmer. I would not try to re-magnatize them. Alot of botique pup makers try to capture the degausing phenonema in their pups for the vintage sound. Thts why all the old strats sound so good.

NOw, when I play them both through my blackface super Reverb, it is plenty fat! huge bottom end, great mid range, and smooth highs. Marcus is right it does matter what amp you play through. I do not use any effects either.

Did you try moving your pups up a little? My St 100, the pups need to be a little high to get the sweet spot, and the St 80 about normal for a strat.

you could also back off on the tone knobs just slightly, you have to do that on some of the older 50's ash strats due to the nature of the ash bodies.

I had a pair of Fender fat 50's in one of my springys and they sounded great, but not as good as the E pups..

What kind of amp do you have?

Cheers Ken
 
Thanks for your input guys, I appreciate it. To answer Ken first, I use a 1993 Fender Blues Deluxe (40w 1x12). It's funny, I have no problem finding guitars I want to buy, but I still stick to the same amp after 15 years! One day, I'll get one of the 90s Vibroverb re-issues, I hope, though the lack of master volume puts me off a bit. I always have the mid turned up full, the bass down low, and the treble and presence get adjusted depending on what guitar I use. Lots of reverb! :p

I often use the tone control on the guitar to fatten/warm up the sound a bit - I find that works best with a .022 cap, as this doesn't affect the volume as much as bigger caps do. It's interesting that your E pickups measure quite a bit more powerful than mine. :-? I don't really understand that.

I think cheshirecatsmile has hit on the reason for the sound issue - a combination of bright sounding pickups AND a bright sounding guitar. My two main Strats have alder bodies and slab rosewood boards - the Springys have ash bodies and cap rosewood boards. Ash bodied Strats were very rare after 1956, except on blond finished guitars, so 60s Strats should have alder bodies - Springys are the rare exception to this rule.

It's hard to tell with the Fernandes, as it has a solid finish (like all my Strats except the Springys), but I assume it's alder - could even be basswood if it was a mid range 80s Japanese Strat. Although I suspect it might be one of the Tokai made ones (it feels very like a Goldstar) so it's quite likely to be alder.

It seems to me that the E pickups might be fine in an alder bodied Strat, but they make an ash bodied Springy a bit too bright - there is a touch of shrillness to the treble; they are fine on the neck pickup, but a bit too harsh on the bridge or bridge/middle settings. If there's one thing I don't like, it's a shrill sounding bridge pickup on a Strat.

So, I took the plunge yesterday and put the set of Texas Specials into the ST80. They didn't work well in my alder bodied 88 Fender (too muddy, not enough open-ness in the the sound), but they just might work in a bright guitar like the ST80. If not, I might try the Kent Armstrongs from the new Fernandes. Initial impressions are quite good - it seems that the bright guitar is stopping the pickups from sounding too muddy. Although I had the Es set up about as high as they would go, I have the Texas Specials set fairly low. I'll take both Springys to rehearsal tonight, and we'll see how they compare.

Should be interesting. :D
 

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